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ch.31:13-15 - Here we have the lesson we must take to heart - to recognise that all have been formed by God in the womb and we should despise no-one. That is only correct for God to do. There is a human tendency to despise those that have not ordered their lives correctly before God. Instead we should be feeling sorry for them and be desirous of helping them, hopefully learning what not to do from the actions of Job's 3 friends. But that is over now. At last Elihu, the young man, comes to Job's rescue as it were. May those of us that are older and those, like me, who very soon will be, really take this message seriously to heart. Wisdom does not bring condemnation. These older friends of Job's were not wise (except in their own conceits)
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Job 31 - Job continues
And now he asks that God would judge him according to his lifestyle. He feels that he has walked uprightly and so does not deserve the calamities that he has experienced.
32:1-5 So the friends say no more.
32:6 and Elihu - a new 'friend' - enters the arena.
32:9 'great men are not always wise' is an attack on Job.
32:15 He now claims to speak wiser words that the friends.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
ch.32:5-6 There is a great lesson for us all here. It is not necessarily the case that old age brings wisdom. Wisdom is a result of experience. I suggest that if we seek out a wise man we look for a man who has had many testings in his life and stuck to his faith throughout, rather than one who has reached a great age. It is clear from this book that old age does not always bring wisdom and understanding, but in this latter part of the book we are brought to our senses by this younger man who has the answers and who is able to help Job see his life in perspective. Let us not ignore the potential for wisdom to come from our younger members.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
31:33 Here we have an indication that Job was familiar with the Genesis account of the fall of Adam and Eve and the way that they sought to cover their nakedness.
32:2 Being angry is hardly a good basis on which to start instructing anyone.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
31:1 We may think that Jesus was the first one to emphasise that looking on a woman to lust is equivalent to adultery (Matthew 5:28) but Job states this principles albeit in slightly different words
32:1 God's assessment of Job as 'upright' (1:8) and the comment that he, before his friends, presented himself as 'righteous' seem to be at variance. We should remember that Job was driven to this claim through the words of his friends. One is left wondering how often we drive our brethren and sisters to justify themselves because of the things we say to them.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
Job 32:18. Elihu, after waiting to make sure that Job’s friends had nothing else to say finally speaks up. But, we must note that he made it clear that what he had to say would not be emotional, or spoken with prejudice. He would not flatter, nor would he show respect to persons. He knew that God would condemn those who did. For a young man he certainly showed a great deal of wisdom.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
Buz was the son of Nahor the brother of Abraham (Gen 22:20,21). Elihu was a descendant of Buz (Job 32:2)
He was also of the family of Ram of whom David was a descendant, seven generations later (Ruth 4:19-22).
Could the great-grandfather of Elkanah, the husband of Hannah in Samuel's time, be the same Elihu as the one in Job? (1Sam 1:1).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Michael
Thoughts differ about Elihu. Some writers describe him as the mouthpiece of God, whereas others consign him to the same depth as the three friends, and as a self-opinionated young upstart. Personally, I think that if he did speak on God's behalf, why then should God Himself speak? Set against this, however, is the fact that God condemns the three friends (Job 42:7), but not Elihu. But, set against this, we have Job 38:2 which is God speaking - and if His words are referring to Elihu, he too is condemned by God.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
31:4-6 So again Job is challenging God to fault him in the way that he has lived.
32:5 So Elihu shares the ‘anger ‘ of Jobs other friends. Just as anger was not a good basis for instruction from the other friends it is hardly a good basis upon which Elihu should start.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
The study of Job is multi-layered and there are many lessons to be learned. Both the Yahweh and Job agree that he (Job) was a virtuous and upright man (1:1;12:4). However, Job was not sinless (Rom 3:23). He was adamant about defending his integrity because he believed that he had done no wrong (27:5,6). He believed that his being righteous should have protected him from evil. But we know that a righteous man can fall, sometimes several times (Prov 24:16). Because Job obeyed the Yahweh, and remained blameless, he was at a loss to understand why he had been mistreated. He wants to hold the Yahweh to account (31:6). That was the major error of Job's behaviour which would soon be challenged (40:2). The lesson for us is to never question the righteous integrity of the Yahweh. We might not understand the reasons for our suffering, or why the Yahweh does not stop it. But we should know that He knows all about it and that it is part of our growth. He will not crush us through any experience (1Cor 10:13); and He will always be there for us if we trust Him, for he says: Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. (Heb 13:5).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Michael
31:7 In speaking of his ‘heart’ Job shows that he understood that pleasing God was not simply a matter of keeping a set of laws. It was about the way he thought. We would do well to ponder on that.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
32:7 Elihu is saying that the friends and Job, because of their age, should have known better. Sadly age is no guarantee of wisdom!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Job catalogues the sins that he is sure he did not commit.
31:1 Maid is translated from the Hebrew word bethulah which is from the root word meaning to separate, thus being a virgin because she is untouched. It is not one of the usual Hebrew words which denote a slave or servant girl. This word has the connotation of being an idol. And so, Job is saying that he was careful to avert his eyes when seeing this idolatrous statue, so as never to be guilty of idolatry.
The idea of a deity in the form of a virgin, separated for worship, has been around since Nimrod founded Babylon. Today, we can see the same kind of worship in the adoration of the Virgin Mary.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
32:3 So Elihu was ‘angry’ because Job’s friends could not answer him. We have to presume, therefore, that Elihu was coning at the whole problem from the wrong perspective – he wanted to show his cleverness
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Elihu is completely correct in his assessment of the problem here. Look at the careful way in which he addresses the incorrect views of each party:
Job: He justified (made righteous) himself rather than God (32:2). In other words, Job had set himself and God in opposition, and ruled in his own favour rather than God's. This isn't right. In reality, Job was a righteous man, but he should not have claimed God was un-righteous in order to make himself feel better (see for example 27:2 "God has taken away my justice")
3 friends: They hadn't found a good reason to condemn Job, yet had still done so (32:3). This rightly angered Elihu because he had seen his friend suffer under their onslaught needlessly.
He then correctly points out the way in which the friends had taken Job's early statements personally (32:14). This is the root of the problem. Have you noticed how all their early speeches are fairly reasonable, then become harsh, bitter and personal over time? Isn't this the way our own arguments go too? Elihu points out that he alone could be impartial since Job's words had not been directed at him (32:14,21). For us too, there are some subjects we are best to avoid with certain people, unless perhaps there is a good mediator in the room.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Rob
31:19-21 So Job returns again to the way he has always behaved. He was a good man who cared for others. However this is no guarantee that problems will not come in one’s own life.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
II. Job's second monologue.
C. Job's repudiation of offences and his final appeal.
Job 31:1-12 - Job defending his personal integrity: V3 - fear of God kept Job from doing wrong (Job 31:14,23 - not a clear expression of exact retribution); V5 - "vanity"<7723>, Job didn't deceive; V6 - Job wanted a fairly weighed judgment/trial from God, Job wanted to prove to God his "integrity"<8538> (unbeknown to Job, God had already proclaimed Job's "integrity"<8538> Job 2:3); V9 - Job never committed adultery (Deut 22:22); V10 - should Job be guilty of adultery he would allow his wife to be a slave-girl to other men and thus himself be disgraced, slaves grinding for another perhaps suggests the lowliest form of bondage (Exo 11:5).
Job 31:13-23 - defending his dealings with his fellow man: V13 - Job's humane ethics were the exception in a world of legal slavery (Eph 6:9), Job's servants were as much the handiwork of God as he was (Job 31:15;10:8-12); V14 - perhaps an echo of the day of judgment (Matt 12:36-37); V16 - cared about the "poor"<1800> including the widow; V17 - Job fed people as did Christ (Matt 14:14-21;15:32-38;John 6:27-35); V18 - raised the fatherless and guided the widow; V19 - clothed the "poor"<34>; V20 - caring for the unappreciative (we are to love our enemies - Matt 5:43-44;Acts 7:58-60); V21 - Job had sufficient influence to seize judicial advantage but declined.
Job 31:24-28 - defending his faithfulness to God: V24-25 - no allegiance to material wealth; V26-27 - not enticed by idolatry (Deut 4:19;17:3;Jer 8:2;Eze 8:16); V28 - God not "denied"<3584> by Job.
Job 31:29-34 - defending his thoughts as honorable: V29-30 - Job was not vindictive toward those who hated him (see V20 comments on loving enemies); V31 - the men of Job's household were well fed; V32 - hospitality to strangers; V33-34 - Job didn't try to cover up his sins to seek public favour.
Job 31:35-40 - Job's final appeal as an honest man: V35 - Job wants to receive the charge against him; V38-39 - Job never exploited the land or those who cultivated it.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
Elihu introduces himself.
Job 32:1-5 - Elihu is angry: V1 - Job was 'righteous'<6662> in his own eyes (Job 9:17;10:7;13:15;16:7); V2 - "Elihu" (<453> - can also mean "God is he, God of him, he is my God, my God is Yahweh"), Elihu was very angry at Job as Job justified 'himself'<5315> rather than God and charged God with injustice (Job 16:12;27:2;30:20-23;40:8).
Job 32:6-10 - though young, I will express my opinions: V6 - "opinion"<1843>; V8 - "But there is a 'spirit'<7307> in man: and the 'inspiration'<5397> of the almighty giveth them 'understanding'<995>." - I don't think Elihu is claiming divine inspiration, but that breath to humans come from the almighty - age doesn't automatically bestow wisdom; V9 - 'Great'<7227> men are not always wise, and the aged are not always correct in their judgements/assessments.
Job 32:11-15 - Elihu remarks that Job was not answered by his friends: V13 - perhaps this is Elihu inferring to Job's friends they should not rationalise their failure by saying God will show Job they were right; V14-15 I will not use your arguments, you were left speechless; V15 - "amazed"<2865>.
Job 32:16-22 - I have no choice, I must speak: V17 - "opinion"<1843>; V20 - Elihu feels compelled to speak (1Cor 9:16); V21 - Elihu intends to be impartial, "man's"(<376> - may often refer to a great man), "man"(<120> - mankind in general); V22 - God would silence Elihu if he flattered.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
31:8 In speaking of his sowing and another eating Job pre dates the comment in Lev 26:16 which demonstrates that even by the time of Job there was a clearly understood set of Divine laws.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
32:3 How often do we enter a discussion with a preconceived conclusion which is not affected by the words of the person or people we are talking to? This is what annoyed Elihu about the friends. They “knew” what Job’s problems were and so did not listen to reason.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
31:5-11 Job, in saying “if” is doubtless saying that truth – that he had done none of those things. David in Psa 7:3-4 in a similar situation when Shimei was accusing him of being guilty of the blood of Saul, rather than stating what he would like God to do, prays for punishment on the one who is speaking the words.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
31:34 Job is not talking generally about the impact of a great multitude – who by implication are opposing him. Rather he is saying that his judgment on matters was not determined by the number of those who opposed him. We might ask how often we say one thing to one person and something else to another because of our desire to please everyone
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
32:20 When Elihu says that he wants to speak that he might be refreshed do we think that this is a good reason for making a comment – that we might benefit?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
31:30 Oh that we could speak so confidently as Job about the way that we use our mouths!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
32:9 Elihu’s comment about wisdom and greatness at a general level is true. However we have to ask ourselves in what way, if at all, was that statement true of Job?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
31:23 When Job speaks of destruction from God being a “terror” he is voicing his concern again which he expressed earlier – 3:25
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
31 The way that Job speaks of his integrity is like the Pharisee that Jesus weaves into a parable – Luke 18:11 – except Job was not simply blowing his own trumpet. All he said was really true of him.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
32:1 Here was have a Divine comment. Job thought himself righteous. Well he was but he should not have appealed to that in his speeches with others. We can be quietly confident that we are counted righteous. But that is jut is. We are counted righteous because of our faith. It is not inherent in us.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
32:15-16 Elihu had been addressing Job and the three friends but now he speaks of them as though addressing someone else. This may be evidence that Elihu wrote the book of Job with these verses being an, inspired, aside to the reader of the reaction of Job and the three friends as Elihu began to speak.
Nigel Bernard [Pembroke Dock UK] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Nigel
32:1 Here was have a Divine comment. Job thought himself righteous. Well he was but he should not have appealed to that in his speeches with others. We can be quietly confident that we are counted righteous. But that is just is. We are counted righteous because of our faith. It is not inherent in us. There is a delicate balance to be struck between appreciating what God has done for us through faith and being arrogant because of what He has done for us.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
31:13and so we return yet again to the question of the way Job treated others. Clearly a major thrust of the way that his friends speak to him. The either imply or even say that he mistreated people.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
31:4 Whilst Job is appealing to the fact that God knows everything about him we should appreciate the force of that point. Job saw his God as all seeing. Is that how we see our heavenly Father?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
PRIDE OR HUMILITY?
At the end of the story of Job, Elihu is the only person Job is not told to pray for. He is also the only person whose speech wasn’t replied to. Elihu was the youngest of the people that argued with Job, but he was also the most self-righteous, self-confident, self-centred and full of pride. In the first 48 verses of his speech, he uses the words I, Me, or My more than 43 times (and that doesn’t include the times he quotes Job’s words when Job speaks about himself). He also contrasts his I, My, and Me statements with You, setting himself up to be a cut above Job and his friends as he speaks. His speech exalts himself and puts others down.
Lifting ourselves up at the expense of others is a natural tendency, not only for youth like Elihu, but for all of us. But God is not pleased with pride. In the end, people with pride will be brought low. God has said that he will exalt those who are humble. “Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.” (1Pet 5:6).
Let’s take note of our conversations today. How many times do we use the words I, Me and My? Are we lifting ourselves up or are we waiting for God to lift us up?
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Robert
32:1 The comment that the friends stopped speaking is an inspired comment about what happened. It is also an inspired comment that Job “justified himself rather than God”. So whilst he was “perfect” his problem was that he trusted in what he did rather than in God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter
v.4-5 - It seems to me we have a picture here of the way that there are those from every generation of the earth's history that are members of the city of Zion, to which we are called (Heb.12:22-24).
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
8:1 - 8:17 is the fourth prophecy
8:8 I will be their God Revelation 21:7 Genesis 17:8 Jeremiah 24:7 Ezekiel 37:27
8:9 let your hands be strong Haggai 2:4
8:9 the day that the foundation ... laid Haggai 2:18
8:12 seed prosperous Haggai 2:19
8:12 heavens give dew Haggai 1:10
8:16 speak the truth ... neighbour Ephesians 4:25
8:19 feast ... fourth month Jeremiah 39:2
8:19 fast ... fifth month 2 Kings 25:8
8:19 fast ... seventh month Jeremiah 28:17
8:19 fast ... tenth month 2 Kings 25:1
8:4 -5 describes a time of peace when no one will make Israel afraid and the men have reached old age because they have not been killed in battle.
8:7 - 8 more restoration passages similar to Jeremiah 30:10
8:12 The promise of prosperous 'seed' and 'vine' contrasts the words of Haggai - a contemporary prophet - who was castigating Israel because they had not turned to God.
8:18 - 14:21 is the fifth and final prophecy
8:19 feast ... fourth month Jeremiah 39:2
8:19 fast ... fifth month 2 Kings 25:8
8:19 fast ... seventh month Jeremiah 28:17
8:19 fast ... tenth month 2 Kings 25:1
This list of feasts and fasts which Zechariah is referring to can all be found mentioned in passages of Scripture relating to the captivity. It is interesting to note that whilst Jeremiah told the people to go and dwell in Babylon, build houses and seek the peace of that land their approach was to simply lament the disasters in their lives.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.3-8 - In the words 'and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth' (v.3) we see the work of Jesus, who was typified by Jerusalem in the prophets, who was also 'the way, the truth and the life'. We are built on this very cornerstone, which makes us part of this city, and party to its joyful state described in these verses.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
8:23 Contrasts starkly with how things were in the time of the prophet. The nations round about Israel would have taken hold of the skirt of a Jew and killed him. So the prophet is speaking of a time future to his days - he is looking to the kingdom when Israel will be the head and not the tail (Deuteronomy 28:13)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
THESE ARE THE THINGS TO DO
The LORD had determined to do good to Jerusalem instead of the evil he had given them because of their wickedness. But to ensure that the good he gave them was going to continue, there were four small but challenging things he asked them to do.
Speak the truth to each other. Grumbling behind each others backs, misleading people, gossip and lies seem to be the normal standard of speech for the world today. But it must be different for us. The New Testament adds to this instruction when it tells us to, "Speak the truth in love."
Render true and sound judgement in your courts. "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." This phrase and swearing on the Bible do not mean what they used to. But we must do our part to be true.
Do not plot evil against your neighbour. Climbing the corporate ladder and getting rid of neighbourly nuisances are both ways we can be sucked into plotting evil. Be kind and compassionate instead.
Do not love to swear falsely. Instead we must delight in doing what is right and just.
Do these things and be well on the way to being pleasing to the LORD.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
8:8 The words of the prophet that God would be 'their God in truth and in righteousness' marked a contrast between how things were in the days of Zechariah and how they will ultimately be. Israel should, therefore, have seen that Zechariah was telling them that they, even though back in the land, were not really acceptable to Him because of their dishonesty. A feature which Malachi will pick up after the time of Zechariah.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
Zech 8:3. “I will dwell” God dwelt above the Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle of Moses, and in the Temple of Solomon in the form of the Shekinah Glory which was representative of God being in the midst of them. We are told in Ezekiel of the glory leaving Jerusalem (11:23) but, we are told it will return (42:2) Speaking here of the restoration of Jerusalem, when God will surely dwell in the midst of them.
Zech 8:23. Israel was told to make a ribbon of blue on the borders of their skirt, to remind them of their heavenly calling Num 15:38-39. This calling will be recognized by the nations in the age to come.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
8:1 Up to Zechariah 6 Zechariah saw things. We are now seeing the 'word' that came to Zechariah - see also 7:1, 12:1
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.9 Zechariah called upon the people to labour faithfully, courageously, and patiently in the work before them, in spite of current difficulties, in the assurance that God would bless such labours by granting those who manifested them a participation in the joys of the future age.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
V.13 God originally called Israel out of Egypt that the people might reflect His glory, but as Jeremiah said "they would not hear" (13:9) Nevertheless this purpose, promised to the patriarchs, shall be fulfilled ultimately (Jer 33:6-9) The national redemption of Israel will be followed by blessings that will extend through Israel to all nations. Isa 2:2-4, Psa 68:29, Psa 72, Jer 3:17. This will be accomplished through David's greater son.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
Jerusalem is really be the centre of God’s new world. Of-course, for the newly returned Jews, this would be a tremendous boost, but it was not to happen immediately. In-fact, it still hasn’t happened yet in the 21st century, has it? But the very fact that God said, “I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem,” (Zech 8:3), must have been wonderful news indeed. I hope they said, “So we must get on and finish the work, then.”
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
Collecting glimpses of the Kingdom will strengthen our faith. It is useful to cultivate as strong an image as possible of our treasure, the Kingdom (Matt 6:21). Imagine people of great age (Isa 65:20) sitting watching children playing in the streets of Jerusalem in peace (vs.4,5). As well as peace, there will be abundance of produce (v.12). The whole world will recognize Yahweh and will come to Jerusalem to entreat His favour (vs.21,22). Imagine a world of peace, abundance, and righteousness. Contrast that with today's world. Where would you rather be?
The four fasts (v.19), in the order given, commemorate: Nebuchadnezzar's entering Jerusalem; the burning of the temple; Gedaliah's assassination; the siege of Jerusalem.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Zech 8:3 Before Israel went into captivity the glory cloud was seen to leave Jerusalem – Eze 10 – but now God says he has returned. This must have been a great encouragement to the faithful, even though the cloud never seems to have re appeared in Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
8:4 The Hebrew word translated streets is RECHOWH (7339) appears to not refer to streets as we know them, but more of an enlargement, or an open space. So aged men and women are described as dwelling in the open spaces of Jerusalem. This makes sense, as they would not dwell or live in the streets. Also, Jerusalem, being a Temple city, would not have streets.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
8:2 In saying that God was ‘jealous for Zion’ the prophet is reminding the people of what he has already said – Zech 1:14– and the words of the prophet Isa 62:1 showing that despite the wickedness of the people God still has his eyes on Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
8:5 Children are an essential part of Zechariah's picture of the city of Jerusalem, he sees the play areas of the city full of boys and girls. Family life can not be diminished for the prosperity of the nation to grow.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
The word streets (vs. 4,5) is translated from the Hebrew rechovot (plural of rechov). In Modern Hebrew, rechovot means streets as we know them today. However, in the sense that Zechariah presents rechovot, the word means broad places such as squares, plazas etc.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
8:4 This description is a consequence of the peace that will enable Jerusalem to be a city ‘without walls’ as described in Zech 2:4
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
v 7,8 First Principles>Kingdom of God>Restoration clearly foretold
In Eze 21:25-27 UNTIL indicates a limitation to the overturning. Go there for more prophecies about Israel's restoration.
Roger Turner [Lichfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Roger
8:3‘the holy mountain’ catches the words of Jer 31:23 – speaking of a time of blessing which Zechariah is saying is having a fulfilment in his day.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
8:12 In speaking of the seed being prosperous Zechariah is saying the same sort of thing as his contemporary – Hag 1:10, 2:19
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
8:22 The “many peoples” and “strong nations” echoes the promise of the earlier prophet – Mic 4:3 – who spoke of the restoration of temple worship in Jerusalem. Whilst Micah is speaking of the future kingdom of God there is a short term, partial, fulfillment in the return from Babylon.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
8:7-8 Zechariah speaks of peace in Jerusalem with Jews from all over the world dwelling together. This marks a big contrast with how it was in Zech’s day. The people had to be persuaded to live in Jerusalem – Neh 11:1 - and there were enemies round about after the return from Babylon
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
8:13 In saying that Israel will be a “blessing” and not a “curse” the prophet is reminding his hearers that God had promised blessings if they were faithful and curses if they were disobedient in Deut 28.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Jerusalem in the future
"There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof." Zech 8:4-5
This refers to the dreadful punishment Babylon brought upon Jerusalem (Lam 2:21) where young and old were slain on the streets of Jerusalem. While Jerusalem has been inhabited since and the streets were relatively safe under the Roman rule, this prophecy appears never to have been fulfilled. We're still looking for the days where Jerusalem will be a place of peace and prosperity at the return of Jesus.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Rob
8:7-8 The way the prophet speaks of a regathering from the east and west is an idea which Jesus presents – Matt 8:11
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
8:8 In saying that God will be the God of Israel we see the prophet drawing on Jer 24:7 and other places which talk of God being the God of a faithful people.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
8:21 That people would speak about speedily going to pray before God echoes the promise that the earlier prophet makes – Isa 2:3.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
8:13 God was so merciful towards His people. Even though he had made them to be an astonishment amongst the nations He plans still to make them a blessing. This feature of God’s character should comfort us. It is His desire that we are granted eternal life. However, and it was for Israel so it is for us. His blessings are conditional upon repentance and faithfulness.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
Jerusalem is called the “city of truth,” “his holy habitation” (Zech 2:13), “the throne of the LORD” (Jer 3:17,18; cf. Isa 11:9; Zech 14:20,21). Anyone who has ever visited Jerusalem can attest to the fact that in this age, it is not a city of truth, YHWH’s holy habitation, nor the throne [Kingdom] of YHWH. It has more religions than we can imagine with all kinds of cults, idols, isms, shrines, graven images, and immorality! YWHW’s Holy Temple will not be built next to the Dome of the Rock at the center of the Temple Mount, or the Al-Aqsa Mosque on the southern side of the Mount facing Mecca in OLD Jerusalem, a city ranked the 7th most dangerous capital in the world!
Chief “Rabbis” believe that though the Jews are forbidden access to the Mount, Maimonides wrote in Hilchos Bais HeBechirah (The Laws of God’s Chosen House) that YHWH’s Shekhinah glory is still there for them (cf. Eze 10:18)! https://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/s99-yc.htm/ YHWH will not share His glory with anyone (Isa 42:8; cf. Jer 31:33,34; Eze 36:26-31)! The late “Rabbi,” Menachem Schneerson, head of the Chabad Lubavitch movement, an Orthodox Jewish Organization, believed to build the third temple is a prerequisite to hasten the return of the Messiah. He advised Benjamin Netanyahu both politically and spiritually, strongly encouraging him to move forward in its building and that Netanyahu would be the one to hand the keys of the third temple over to the Messiah.
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/117202/netanyahu-holding-keys-messiah/
Cf. https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3009476/jewish/Why-Havent-Jews-Rebuilt-the-Temple-Yet.htm/ https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594241/jewish/Did-the-Jews-Disregard-Ezekiels-Prophecy-of-the-Temple.htm/
Rabbinic Orthodox, Ashkenazi, and Sephardic Chief “Rabbis” believe a temple must be constructed before the return of Messiah in obedience to Exo 25:8. The third temple, should it be built in this age, will not be the Biblical YHWH’s Holy Temple! Since Ezekiel’s Temple according to the measurements of 875 square feet would not fit on top of the Temple Mount of 300 square feet, most Evangelicals claim the Millennial Temple in Jerusalem is not a literal temple, but a spiritual one. On the other hand, Biblical Scholars use this as a case for the Fourth Temple, the Millennial Temple. Evangelicals supportive of building a third temple argue that it will lead us closer to Yeshua and justify the present building of the temple to fulfill 2Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2! An unbiblical temple reintroducing animal sacrifices negates the sacrifice of the Messiah! Christ stated when asked where to worship that, “neither in this mountain, nor at Jerusalem, worship the Father” (John 4:21; cf. 1Cor 3:16,17; Acts 17:24,25). This he spoke of the present dispensation of “living stones” (1Pet 2:3-6), Christ being the “Chief cornerstone” (Eph 2:19-22). All true believers under the Gospel of Christ are spiritual temples having boldness to enter into the Holiest through Christ our High Priest ((Heb 10:19-23).
According to the Hebrew Bible, the Beit haMikdash haShlishi, The House, the Holy, the Third will be the Third Temple! https://www.temple3.com/plan.php/ There is no literal fourth in the Bible, but it is written in the Jewish Talmud, Tanach, and Halachic writings. Chaim Richman, the director of the Temple Institute states, “it’s a mitzvah [command] to build the Temple,” citing Exo 25:8; that Jews should be performing all 613 mitzvot, which requires a temple. None of these works are inspired writings. We follow one Rabbi and High Priest, King Yahoshua (Matt 23:5,8). The Hebrew prophets prophesied the rebuilding of the Third Temple, the NEW Jerusalem, YHWH-shammah – YAHWEH is there - the “holy city, new Jerusalem,” a “heavenly Jerusalem” there during the Messianic Millennial age (Isa 4:2-4; Eze 37:26-28; Heb 12:22-24; Rev 3:12; Rev 21:2-5). This prophecy is still in the future (Zech 2:8-13).
The Holy Temple shall be built after the cleansing of Jerusalem by the brANCH, the Messiah (Eze 43:1-12; Zech 6:12-15). The remnant of Israel shall be saved (Isa 10:21,22; Rom 9:27; cf. Isa 42:9), the 10 tribes of Israel shall be re-united with the tribe of Judah (Eze 37:15-28, and all shall then worship in Spirit and in Truth.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Valerie
FIND JOY AND GLADNESS
"Thus says the LORD of Hosts: The fast of the forth month and the fast of the fifth and the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth shall be to the house of Judah seasons of joy and gladness and cheerful feasts. Therefore love truth and peace." (Zech 8:9).
God wanted his people to keep the fasts that he had arranged in their year because the holidays allowed them to have seasons of joy and gladness. Work work, work, all day, every day, will eventually burn us out. It makes us dull and boring. Just like the Israelites, we need to take some time out to have joy, to find gladness, and to relax.
But at those times we also need to seek God. He wasn't anticipating that we go and have an all out binge of selfishness, and that's why he added, "Therefore love truth and peace." When we find joy in God and find time to celebrate him, giving thanks for the blessings we have been given, we show we love truth. And when we share what we have with others and rejoice with them, we show that we love peace.
So plan a holiday, use it to relax and have joy and gladness, while giving thanks to God for his blessings, and sharing that joy with others.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Robert
8:5The description of children playing in the streets of Jerusalem speaks of a time future to the days of the prophet. With the enemies of the Jews surrounding the city and hindering the work it would hardly have been safe for the children to play in the street. However the prophet is echoing the words of the earlier prophet Isa 65:17. A time which has not yet fully been fulfilled. We look to the return of Christ – the coming of Messiah – for these things to happen.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
8:2-3 Given that God has concerns for Zion we have to ask whether we have similar concerns? Are we amongst those who “mourn for Zion” –Isa 61:3? Because it is not the seat of God’s kingdom at the moment but is downtrodden?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
8:12 the promise of a good harvest is a reversal of the promised punishment for unfaithfulness – Lev 26:21 –Israel should have seen their troubles as a punishment from God in the fulfilment of the curses of |Lev 26 and Deut 28. Because they did not measure their experiences against the word of God they were unable to see His hand at work. Are we so blind as to not see the events around the Middle East in the context of Bible prophecy?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
8:3 God moved Zechariah to speak of God’s intentions. He was going to dwell I Zion. God moved the prophet to remind Israel of His promises with a number of references to earlier books in their bible. In speaking of the “mountain of the Lord of hosts” we see an echo of Isa 2:2.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
8:9 The call to “be strong” is echoed in the contemporary prophet – Hag 2:4.
We all need encouragement from time to time and when, I this case, came from God from two sources the impact must have been strong on these faithful men, Joshua and Zerubbabel.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
8:2 God’s jealousy for Zion was expressed before the captivity to the kingdom of Judah – Isaiah 62:1 – where God’s jealousy is seen in His tireless working for the salvation of His people. Do we jealously guard the truth of the gospel we have received?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter
6 v.11 - We see here the ones who are judges righteous, who, although they represent a small remnant of the inhabitants of the earth, nevertheless are without number (ch.7:9). This is not the 144 thousand of later in the book. This, it would seem, is a much greater number than that. These are those whose names have not been blotted out of the book of life, who have not defiled their garments - those who have responded to the chastening hand of God in their lives.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
5:9-10 To sing the song of these verses will be a wonderful privilege. It is ours if we heed the exhortations and warnings of the book of Revelation.
ch.6 - The six seals speak of violence and woe. To a community who are conscientious objectors we may feel uncomfortable with so much violence. However our God is a God of judgment and as such has in the past, and will in the future. We will not have problems with the way in which our God judges the world if we appreciate how evil it's ways are.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
sat on the hand
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Isa 6:1 | |
him that sat upon the throne
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Isa 6:1 | |
him that sitteth upon the throne
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Isa 6:1 | |
6:10 |
How long
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Isa 6:11 |
These quotations continue the theme we saw yesterday.
And the kings of the earth and the great men
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Continuing our observation of the use of Psalm 2 we see that the seals mark the time when the kingdom is established and Christ rules supreme.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
5:1 That the book was written within and on the back side indicates that it is full of lamentations and woe - see Eze 2:10
6:11 That saints have had to 'rest yet for a little season' should remind us that our brethren have been persecuted and some even killed for their faith right down through the ages. We should spare a prayer for our brethren and sisters suffering persecution and help at a practical level where possible.
Read about the Karolyn Andrews Memorial Fund
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
5:5 "The root of David" shows that even though Revelation is concerned with event after the death and resurrection of Jesus that we are still involved with the promises to the fathers.
6:13 the "fig tree [that] casteth her untimely figs" quotes Isa 34:4 which is a prophecy of judgement upon Edom.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
5:9 "Clothed in white robes" At our baptism we "put on Christ" as a garment to cover past sins. Those seen by John are all the saints whose sins have been covered by the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
1:1; 5:5 Only the Lord Jesus is able to tell His followers what must shortly come to pass. The seals represent periods of history subsequent to AD 90. The first six seals took place in the first few centuries. One traditional Christadelphian analysis gives the following breakdown:
First seal: 96-183 AD
Second seal: 183-211 AD
Third seal: 212-235 AD
Fourth seal: 235-303 AD
Fifth seal: 303-311 AD
Sixth seal: 312-324 AD
The seventh seal is protracted in length as it unfolds into trumpets (incorporating woes) and vials. We are clearly at that point of history which is considered the end times. Jesus could come at any time and call us to judgement.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Chapter six reveals the first four seals:
First seal: 96-183 AD: The first horse is white which signifies purity and peace. Here, it represents a time of peace in the Roman Empire. Those following Jesus, however, were never at peace, even during this time (2Tim 3:12).
Second seal: 183-211 AD: The second horse was red, the symbol of bloodshed which occurred as Roman emperors set about murdering one another.
Third seal: 212-235 AD: The third horse was black. This is descriptive of famine causing widespread death. This was also a time of many assassinations of the Roman elite.
Fourth seal: 235-303 AD: The fourth horse was pale. This referred to a sickly green colour which symbolized approaching death. Represented, here, is a time of extensive violence and killing.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Rev 5:10 - indicates that we shall reign as "kings & priests" in the kingdom age to come
- Have you ever wondered WHY?
- In the kingdom age to come, when mortal puts on immortality, the saints will manifest the 2 characteristics of the offices of Kings & priests (mercy & truth)
- As a nation, Israel was designed to represent God to other nations; to both rule them & to draw them to the truth and righteousness (Deut.4:4-6)
- But the people broke the covenant when Moses was in the mount, and the priesthood was given to Levi (Exo.32:25-29) and later the governing part was given to Judah
- In Christ, both will be restored as originally intended
1Pet 2:5-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: "
- “Kings & Priests” – Mercy & Truth
- These are the 2 characteristics we need to emulate NOT only in the kingdom age, BUT NOW
- This is what is involved in the call of the gospel
- We are NOW a people belonging to God, and being in Christ, we need to emulate the characteristics of Christ to the best of our abilities
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Peter
5:6 The lamb ‘had been slain’ – it was no longer dead. A truly fitting representation of the risen Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
6:8 the phrase 'with sword ... beast of the earth' quotes Eze 14:21 which speaks of impending judgement upon Jerusalem by the Chaldeans.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
The phrase kings and priests (KJV) is more correctly translated in modern versions as kingdom and priests (5:10). The saints will perform rôles of priests in the kingdom, but there will be only one king - Jesus.
The four horses described here (6:1-8) have no relation to the chariot horses of Zech 5:2,3.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
6:10 The cry ‘how long O Lord’ echoes the cry of Zech 1:12 where the prophet is, at the time of the return from Babylon, praying for the redemption of Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
5:8 The way that prayers are ‘odours’ draws on the language of Psa 141:2. This little comment in Revelation helps us to understand that all the incense that was offered was not an end in itself. Rather it pointed to the fact that God wants to ‘smell’ our words.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Rev 5:9-10 First Principles>Sure Mercies of David>Government
The rulership of God's Kingdom is not limited to the twelve apostles. The faithful will play a part as well.
For more information about the government of God's Kingdom, go to Matt 19:28
Roger Turner [Lichfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Roger
6:16 In speaking of the hills and mountains covering the wicked Jesus is alluding to his comments – Luke 23:30 and the warning of the prophet – Hos 10:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
HOW LONG MUST WE WAIT?
In John's vision he "saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, 'How long, O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?'" (Rev 6:9-10)
We sometimes sing the old hymn that asks the same question as was asked by the souls under the altar.
How long, O Lord, our Saviour
Wilt thou remain away?
Our hearts are sometimes weary
That thou doest absent stay;
Oh! When shall come the moment,
When brighter far than morn,
The sunshine of thy glory
Shall Israel adorn?
The question we need to ask ourselves is whether we really mean it when we sing or pray for the return of Jesus. Like the souls under the altar we should be desperately longing for the time when Jesus is king, not only of our lives but also of the whole world. Are there ever times when we cry out to God with the same question: "How long, O Lord, before you return to judge the world and set us free?" If we are really longing for the return of Christ we too would be crying out to God, "How long?"
If this hasn't been our cry recently, then are we really looking forward to his return as much as we should?
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Robert
Understanding = Life
What does the sealed book mean in Rev 5:1-4? In Isa 29:10-11 the same symbol is used for a prophecy that cannot be understood. And likewise in Daniel 12:8-10 it is a prophecy of the end time that people cannot understand. So is that the answer? Maybe not entirely. Notice in Daniel the same words are used of Daniel himself:
"the words are sealed till the time of the end... But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest and arise"
So the life of Daniel, his sealing and waiting for the resurrection, is echoed in the sealing and opening of the book. In Revelation 7 also it is the people that are sealed, and the opening of the seal is presumably their resurrection to life. Maybe here we can see that understanding the message is inextricably tied to life. Those who understand will have life (Prov 16:16,22).
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Rob
5:8 We may wonder why there are 24 and not 12 ‘elders’. There were 24 divisions / courses of the sons of Aaron in the worship associated with Solomon’s temple 1Chron 24:1,18
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
Rev 5 - Rev 8:1The following are abridged notes taken from the books, Hear What The Spirit Saith To The Ecclesias, by Brother John Knowles, Eureka, by Brother John Thomas, and 13 Lectures On the Apocalypse, by Brother Robert Roberts. The book Daniel was told to seal, (Dan 12:4), is now opened by Christ.
God's judgments on Pagan Rome:
Seal 1: A.D. 96-183, white horse symbolizes Roman power during a peaceful time in the Empire, and "he that sat on him had a bow" (arrowless bowman) is descriptive of a bloodless victory of Truth over Paganism.
Seal 2: A.D. 183-211, red horse means troubles in the Roman Empire; peace is taken from them resulting in bloodshed.
Seal 3: A.D. 212-235, black horse speaks of a period of oppression and mourning in the Greco-Latin society.
Seal 4: A.D. 235-303, a pale horse with its rider named, Death, indicates a period of war, famine, pestilences, which greatly decimated the Roman world.
Seal 5: A.D. 303-311, the souls under the altar are the Christians who were fiercely persecuted under Diocletian.
Seal 6: A.D. 311-324, a great political earthquake, i.e. the reign of Constantine. Pagan Rome becomes Christian Rome. The persecution of Christians comes to an end.
Seal 7: Half-hour silence is about 15 years. Government of Imperial Rome under Constantine extends to the end of the 7th Vial when the wrath of Deity against Laodicean apostasy is full (Rev 15:4). Seven angels are now assigned to the Seven Trumpets.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
ONLY THE FINEST INGREDIENTS
If you read the label on a block of chocolate, tins of fruit, pizza boxes, or a packet of muesli, you can often find a phrase that goes something like this: Made with the finest ingredients. So as the consumer, as I open that product, I know that I have got the best.
When John saw a vision of heaven with the four living creatures and the twenty four elders holding golden bowls full of produce from the earth, if those golden bowls had needed a label, they also would have declared "Filled with the finest ingredients."
Let's take a look at what their golden bowls were filled with. After all, you don't fill a golden bowl with substandard products - gold is reserved for the best. "And when he (the Lamb) had taken it (the scroll), the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." (Rev 5:8) The finest ingredients held in those golden bowls are our prayers!
What are our prayers like? Are they fit to become ingredients in the golden bowls of incense? Do they give glory to God? Do we fill our prayers with praise to God and Jesus? Do we ask for things that will give glory to them?
Let's make sure our prayers are worthy of the golden bowl they will be placed into in heaven.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Robert
Verse 10 has the pronouns "us" and "we" according to the K.J.V. The N.I.V., R.S.V., and R.V. and other versions have the pronouns "them" and "they". The identity of the 24 elders and living creatures and the time period referred to hinge on which version(s) is the most accurate. So, what might be the meaning of vv. 9, 10? In other words, who is doing the speaking, and to whom are they referring?
Pretty obviously, any questions and answers on a book as complex as Revelation are problematic. But at the same time, even with the book packed through and through with various symbols, things should be logical and make sense. It seems to me that before trying to arrive at who is talking and about whom they are talking in ch. 5:9,10, it would be good to try and see what is really happening and where it's happening in both chapters 4 & 5.
When reading ch. 4 which leads without a break into ch. 5, the scene almost has to be the heaven where God and the angels are. (I do know that "heaven" can and does have other applications in other parts of Rev. as is true in other Bible books as well, but bear with me on this.) In ch. 4, you have any number of real or figurative beings expressing honor and glory to God Himself. Then in the early part of ch. 5 an angel appears asking the question, "Who is worthy to break the seal and open the scroll?" While no one was found to do this - which upset John greatly (v. 4) - one of the elders says that one has been found, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David - he has triumphed and is able to open the scroll with its 7 seals.
Then, almost magically, when John looks to see this person, he sees a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain. So, in effect, the Lion of Judah and Root of David was a slain but resurrected and glorified Lamb. This, of course, is the immortal Jesus with superior power and wisdom as shown by the 7 horns and 7 eyes (Rev 5:6). So he takes the scroll from God and the cherubim creatures and elders fall down before him. And note they are holding bowls of incense which are stated to equal the prayers of the saints (Rev 5:8). Now - v. 9,10 (N.I.V.) -
"They sang a new song. You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe, language, people, and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."
This and the other versions that translate the pronouns in the 3rd person ("they", "them") and not the 2nd person ("we", "us" as K.J.V. does) seem right to me. For the cherubim beings and 24 elders are the ones holding the prayers of the saints, who are a different entity. And those saints are the ones who are now, through the sacrifice of Christ, in a position to eventually be kings and priests to reign on the earth. But this could not ever take place nor the results leading up to that ultimate goal - the opening of the seals which would lead to the sounding of the trumpets which would lead to the pouring out of the vials, etc., the major events of God's plan - they could not ensue until Jesus had accomplished all that he did and ascend into heaven. But now that that has happened, all other events can take place. And this leads to praise of God in both heaven and earth (Rev 5:11-14). And we as believers in Christ, participate in that ongoing praise of God and Jesus for our being able to know and participate in that Plan and Purpose.
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Wes
5:5 In speaking of Jesus as “the root of David” we are being directed to consider Isa 11:10 which is a prophecy of the lord Jesus Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
WORTHY OF PRAISE
When the four living creatures and the twenty four elders sang a new song to the Lamb, this is what they sang: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open it's seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." (Rev 5:9-10).
And then the angels sang, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and praise!" (v.12)
And then every creature in heaven and earth joined in, singing, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honour and glory and power, for ever and ever!" (v.13)
While it may be that these songs of praise will be sung to Jesus as he establishes his kingdom on the earth, there is no reason we should wait for our praise of him to begin then. All the reasons to praise him have already been fulfilled in Jesus. He has purchased us with his blood, he was the redeeming sacrifice, he is preparing us as a kingdom and priests, and he is worthy of our praise.
So let us praise him now. He is no less worthy of our praise today as he will be tomorrow.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Robert
5:11 the ‘ten thousand’ is not necessarily a literal number as the same phrase is used a number of times in Scripture as a metaphor for a large number. For example David’s prowess 1Sam 18:7 or the ‘beloved’ Song 5:10
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
5:6 The 24 elders, in saying “amen” are assenting to the things that are said and by implication the judgments that are to come. Do we assent to these things or just feel that they will come anyway? We should commit ourselves to Him and wholeheartedly endorse the things He is going to do.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
5:10 In speaking of those who were redeemed as “kings and priests” we are reminded of God’s statement about Israel when they were at Sinai –Exo 19:6.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
A new song Rev 5:8-10
Bodies spiritual, delivered from the tendency to decomposition inherent in all animal organizations; faculties exalted; emancipated from the heaviness and cloud that haze over the most brilliant of mortal powers; life immortalised by the transmutation of our substance from the frail fibre of animal being to the indestructible tissues of spirit-body; the society of impeccable immortals, radiant with life, light, and praise; dominion secured in all the earth; honour, wealth, joy, and renown our portion in the high places on earth when the voice of the scorner has ceased; the earth a smiling paradise; its valleys jubilant with righteous mirth; "glory to God in the highest; goodwill toward men; health, blessing and plenty crowning all lands with joy; time not dimming the glory or weakening the zest; the advent of an enemy or an end to salvation impossible; "an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, that fadeth not away."
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Nick
6:15 In Psa 2:2 the “kings of the earth” oppose God – in particular His son. But now we see them hiding in the caves of the earth. Human pride will be brought low with the return of Jesus Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
5:11 the ten thousands and thousands of thousands reminds us of both Dan 7:10 and Psa 68:17 They are not just numbers but we are being reminded of the way the Old Testament speaks of the redeemed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
“And they cried with a loud voice, how long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”
“AN enlightened spectator, contemplating the festering abominations of European and American papal and sectarian sections of the court of the Gentiles, might wonder at the long suffering and forbearance of the Deity, whose Name and Tabernacle they so grievously blaspheme. He might exclaim, ‘How long, O Yahweh, wilt thou not avenge thine own cause?’ But, to him it might be replied, that the Deity remains silent, not because He is not indignant at the blasphemies. Corruptions, and cruelties perpetuated against His dignity, and the well-being of His two witnesses or prophets; but because the Anti-christian Court is ‘cast away out, and not measured.’ For this reason, the Gentiles have liberty to set up any, and all kinds of abominations in their court, or area of operation, without being subjected to immediate judgment for their crimes. Hence, polygamous Mormonism, and adulterous Romanism, courtesan state-churchism, and hypocritical sectarianism, all flourish in their several spheres of abomination. They are permitted to do as they please, until the measure or limit of the One Body’s sackcloth probation is attained—a measure indicated by John’s symbolic resurrection from the death sleep. John’s rising up measured the altar worshipping of the nave, or saints of Deity. When these rise from the dust, and he with them, ‘the Angel stands’ prepared to ‘finish the mystery of the Deity as he hath announced the good news to his servants the prophets’—to break up the court, and to level the Great Mountain of human dominion and corruption, with which it is filled.”
Brother John Thomas, EUREKA, Vol. II
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
5:4 John truly entered into the vision he was seeing. He “wept much” on seeing. Does the way I which we see man trying to resolve his solutions without God cause us distress?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him…”
No book is as intriguing as the Book of the Apocalypse with its array of visions! Deciphering them is challenging, and yet extremely fascinating! This fourth horse that John saw was not a pale horse, but a green horse! Pale is # 5515, “chloros, “green.” While Strong’s Concordance includes the word, “pale,” it is because it was so written by the scribal translators. Chlorophyll comes from this word, a pigment colour that gives plants and leaves their green colour. It is not an “ashen,” nor a “pale” colour. In fact, chloros is only translated as pale in this passage! In Mark 6:39, Rev 8:7, Rev 9:4, the same word, chloros is translated, “green.” Pale, or ashen, is the normal skin colour of a dead person, and the green colour made no sense to the translators, green symbolizing life. Thus, translators after translators copied this error. But, the inspired John used “green” for the last horse and by changing it, it altered his original intent. Each horse has a specific colour that identifies them and shows their historical progression downward ending in death, so, the colour does matter.
The four horsemen represent past historical chronological events, and may be read in EUREKA, by Dr. John Thomas. However, it is possible that these chronological events have a double entendre in our day. Even now we can hear the thunderous hooves of the four horses storming across the stage of human history, bringing deception, wars, hunger and death on a scale so massive it staggers the mind!
The following countries contain all the four colours of the four horses: Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Sudan, and the United Arab Emirates! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Arab_colors/ Coincidence? Hardly! During the Crusades, Islamic soldiers wore green to identify themselves. The Crusaders avoided this colour to avoid being killed by friendly fire. Quran 18:31 states, “Those will have gardens of perpetual residence; beneath them rivers will flow. They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold and will wear green garments of fine silk and brocade…” (Underline added). Green, then, identifies a belligerent, war-mongering people, the enemies of Israel and infidels – non-Muslims. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Quran 3:56. "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions [i.e. Trinity] with Allah, for which He had sent no authority." Quran 3:151."I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." Quran 8:12. There are over 100 verses in the Quran that speak of war and violence against infidels! History records their unimaginable cruelties surpassing the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse- tung!
We see in our day the hoofs of the green horse marching again with great strength, speed, threats, death and the grave following. John specifically gave a green horse, the last horse, as the identifier as to what to watch for to those living in the last age.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Valerie
5:9 During Jesus’ ministry, John like the rest of the disciples, would have seen the gospel message being exclusively for the Jews. This limited understanding was replaced with a knowledge that the gentiles also were offered salvation through Jesus’ blood. This is seen here in the different nations who realise that they are saved.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
5:2 The “strong angel” knew who was worthy to open the book. John needed to realise – as do we – that the only one with the authority to reveal God’s plan to us in the Revelation was Jesus – the risen lord.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
5:2-4 John was so immersed in the revelation that he was seeing that on thinking that the sealed book could not be opened he wept much. It is not that he wept because he could not understand what Revelation is all about. Rather he wept because he could not see how salvation would come about. That was the “mystery” in the Old Testament. We should question whether we take the salvation in Christ for granted or appreciate the generous way God has brought about salvation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
5:5 So how did the “lion of the tribe of Juda” prevail? And what did it “prevail” over?
The “lion” clearly is the risen Jesus. He prevailed over human nature – the greatest battle ever fought but the power that Jesus used was not physical strength, it was obedience to his Father’s will.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
5:5 In speaking of the “root of David” we are taken again – see 3:7 for an earlier mention of David – to see how David is woven into the work of salvation. The final time in Revelation where David is mentioned again is 22:16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
THERE IS NO ONE LIKE JESUS!
We need to remember to lift Jesus up in our minds, heart and lives, to give him the honour he truly deserves.
Great sports people are honoured, great politicians, people who make amazing changes to the world, while the world’s greatest actors, singers and musicians are idolised. But with practice and advice, other people could fill those shoes and become just as great.
Jesus overcame sin, broke the curse on mankind, overcame death, and opened the way to make us one with God again. No one else in the course of history has ever been able to do that.
There will always be another basketball player, another pop star, another charismatic leader, but there will never be anyone like Jesus. Can any one of us follow him, even for a week, without messing up? I think we all struggle to avoid sin every day and fall to its temptations much more than we would like. We would like to be more like him, but it’s hard.
Jesus achieved a greater conquest than anyone else in human history when he defeated his human nature. No wonder people and all God’s creatures bow before him! What status, what glory, what honour and praise should rise to Jesus! He is the greatest!
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Robert
5:3-4 John was in a vision when he saw the book that could not be opened. However he still “wept”. He was involved in what he was seeing. How immersed do we get into the narrative we might be reading in scripture?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter