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v.7 This is all to do with giving God the glory. Whatever we do, and whenever we do it, it is in His strength, by definition, as there is no other power in the universe. However, recognising and humbly accepting that our achievements are not our own is quite a different thing! Psa.92:4, 109:27, 111:2, Ecc.8:17
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Elihu continues
37:1-13 Elihu observes that God works through nature
37:14 So Job, Elihu says, do you understand these things?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
This chapter sees the end of Elihu's speech, and we note that Job is not given the chance to reply. God takes over the discussion now and brings Job to his senses. It is as if God has been waiting for the opportunity to do this, but it was not provided by the older men.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
37:19 And so now Elihu seems to taunt Job asking him to teach them (Elihu and the three friends) how they should understand how to speak with God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
37:1-13 The fact that God later calls Job to look at aspects of His work of itself does not give credence to the words of Elihu. To just ask the questions does not prove that Elihu was taking the correct approach to Job's problems. We have already seen in the earlier chapters that he took to himself a status that he had not been given.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
Job 37:14. Elihu pleads for Job’s attention. Job had demanded God to give him an answer. Man must learn to submit to the fact that what ever God does is for man’s good. Job, like us could not explain the wondrous works of God.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
POUNDING HEARTS
"At this my heart pounds and leaps from its place." (Job 37:1)
Elihu found that God's magnificent creation stirred his emotions like nothing else. He only had to look around him to be awestruck by the power and majesty of the Creator. As he urged Job later, saying, "Listen to this, Job; stop and consider God's wonders," (Job 37:14) so we should stop and consider God's wonders ourselves.
Elihu began by looking up. Maybe we should do the same as we gaze at the vastness of the heavens, the ethereal blue of the sky, the beauty of the sunrise and the sunset - new pictures painted by God for us to marvel at every day. We can see the expanse of his power as we look up into space and see the millions of stars he has created in glorious beauty, shining in the blackness on the night sky. And when we see clouds we can be impressed by the sheer volume and weight of water that God suspends above the earth. Who has not failed to be impressed by the thunder and lightening of a storm - thunder that can be heard all over the land, and lightening that lights up the whole earth with one almighty flash. And what about the rain, the snow or the hot sun and the way that God can disrupt the whole of man's affairs by floods, snowstorm , earthquake or heatwave...
May our hearts also pound and leap from their places as we stop to consider God's wonders.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Robert
V.13 Disasters are to improve us, more than to prove us. We receive not according to our merits, but by God's grace.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Elihu concludes his speech by saying how great God is. Elihu definitely had a good understanding of God in nature.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
Vs.11-13 show how He can display His love or His anger through using the same natural phenomenon. He can bring the rain to grow the crops we need for sustenance. He can also use the same medium for destruction.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
37:5 On the one hand Elihu says that it is not possible to comprehend the words of God yet on the other hand he is telling Job what his problem is – presumably because he understands God’s words!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
37:14 Having spoken about the inability to understand God’s involvement in the way that things work in the natural world Elihu now suggests to Job that he ought to reflect on that, implying that Job cannot understand the way that God works in the lives of men – but then claims that he knows how He works!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
37:8 It seems that Elihu is referring to animals which hibernate in winter so we have to conclude that Job was living in a less hospitable climate than that in Israel especially as there are many references to snow and frost in the book of Job.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Elihu invites job to consider the majesty of Yahweh. He asks Job whether he had been a participant in creation with Yahweh (v.18). This question is a precursor to the questions that Yahweh, Himself, will shortly ask Job.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
37:15-16 Now Elihu stands in God’s position, so to speak, asking Job whether he knows what God does.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
IV. Elihu's fourth speech (continued).
B. God is omnipotent (continued).
Job 37:1-5 - the thunder of God's voice: V2 - KJV "noise"<7267>, "sound"<1899> (as if a far away rumble of thunder); V3 - "lightning"<216>; V4 - "After"<310> (suggesting when the storm is closer), "roareth"<7580>, "thundereth"<7481>; V5 - "God 'thundereth'"<7481>.
Job 37:6-10 - God causes the winter: V6 - God sends the snow (Job 38:22), mentions two rains (perhaps the early rains of Oct to Nov and the latter rains of Feb to March that bracket the snow); V7 - God stops man's labour so all may "know"<3045> His "work"<4639> (we can see God's power and nature in His creation Rom 1:20); V9 - "south"<2315>, "whirlwind"<5492>; V10 - "breath"<5397>, "frost"<7140> - (Job 38:29 - "ice"<7140>).
Job 37:11-16 - God controls the clouds: V11 - NASB "Also with moisture He loads the thick cloud; He disperses the cloud of His lightning" (KJV "bright"<216> "cloud"<6051> - perhaps refers to sheet lightning); V12 - perhaps this reminds us of how large storm cloud formations (including hurricanes) literally swirl around in circular patterns over the face of the earth; V13 - three reasons for storm clouds etc. - for correction, to nourish the land, to dispatch mercy (in the past Josh 10:11;Judg 5:4;1Sam 7:10 - in the future Eze 38:22;Rev 16:18); V14 - similar language used (Exo 14:13;Psa 46:10), Job is directly addressed - some view this as the official beginning of Elihu's final appeal; V15 - "cloud"<6051>; V16 - "balancings"<4657> (God hangs the clouds on nothing across the sky), "clouds"<5645>.
Job 37:17-18 - God causes heat waves: V17 - weather so hot he "quieteth" the earth (people and animals are so exhausted from the heat they are idled/quieted); V18 - sky is "strong"<2389> and as a "molten"<3332> "looking glass"<7209>.
Job 37:19-24 - "God is awesome majesty" - Elihu's final appeal: V19 - Tell us what we should say to him (Prov 30:3-4); we cannot present a case because of our darkness (Ecc 2:14); V20 - "...if a man speak, surely 'he shall be swallowed up'<1104>" - Job had expressed a desire to speak and reason with God (Job 13:3;31:33) - Elihu feels it would be running the risk of destruction to speak with God; V21 - "bright light" contrasting with the "darkness" of Job 37:19 - "clouds"<7834>, "cleanseth"<2891>; V22 - "Fair weather"<2091>, "terrible"<3372> "majesty"<1935>; V23 - "...he will not 'afflict'<6031>" ("...doth not 'afflict'<6031> willingly..." Lam 3:33); V24 - RSV "...wise in their own conceit".
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
37:23 And so Elihu says again – like in 37:5 – that God is unsearchable – but yet Elihu has the answers!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
37:23 Clearly God does “afflict”. Scripture is full of examples of God afflicting His children for their good.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Job 37:11 The Lord uses the power of nature at His disposal to fulfill His purpose with the earth. The clouds are used to bring rain and thunder upon the inhabitants of the earth. There are several Hebrew words translated “cloud” in our English KJV Bible. Young’s Concordance informs us that there are two different Hebrew words used for cloud in this verse.
(Job 37:11) “…by watering he watereth the thick cloud…” The Hebrew word here <5645>, is for a “Scud cloud – an envelope that is dark or dense.” (See also, Judg 5:4; 1Kin 18:45)
The same verse continues, “…he scattereth with his bright cloud:”
The Hebrew word here is <6051>, a “Nimbus or thunder cloud” as it covers the sky. The context of the verse suggests that God uses thunder clouds in judgment. It was a Nimbus cloud that led the children of Israel on their wilderness journey. (See, Exo 13:22; Exo 14:19,20,24; Exo 24:16.)
Job 37:21 Another Hebrew word for cloud <7834> occurs here.
Meaning a powder or vapor cloud.
King David describes the return of Lord Jesus Christ in this way. “He shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without (i.e.Scud) clouds;…”. (2Sam 23:4).
There is a lovely theme here to follow up for a Bible Class!
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
37:23 It clearly is not the case that we cannot find out God. Job clearly had.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
37:15-16 Maybe Elihu is not in a position to challenge Job as to his understanding of what God does and how. However God is and he does challenge Job on these points – 39:1 for example. The fact that God uses similar arguments to Job is no guarantee that Elihu was right in what he said. We have to question whether Elihu had the right to make such a challenge in the first place.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
37:1 In Job 36:26-33 Elihu has spoken of the majesty of God. Now he says that he is overawed by that knowledge. By implication he is saying that Job is not!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
37:18 Elihu now challenges Job asking him if he was with God when he created the earth and the principles which govern all its intricate activities. Modern scientists would do well to remember they were not there when the world came into existence. So do we.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
Job 37:1 similar words are found in Psa 2:11, Phil 2:12
It talks about a fear in philipians that is reverance to a husband , trembling speaks of a distrust in ones on ability. This was one of the lessons Job learnt.
stephen cox [Sedgley UK] Comment added in 2017 Reply to stephen
37:23 Elihu is echoing what was said – 11:17 – by Zophar. Elihu is continuing the charge that, by implication, Job does not understand God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
37:23 it clearly is not the case that God cannot be “found out” He can but only in the way in which he has given. He has revealed Himself in His written word, the Bible. So Elihu was miss presenting the situation for his own benefit. He had been saying that he was the one who could explain God whereas in truth he should have been directing Job and his friends to what written revelation was available at that time.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
37:6 so we see that Job recognised that God was in control of the weather – see Psa 147:16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
37:2 When Elihu says “hear attentively” he is using the same Hebrew phrase as Job has used twice already – 13:17, 21:2. It is as if he is challenging Job in the same way that Job challenged in particular Zophar.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
37:15-16 Whilst later God makes similar challenges to Job we might question whether it was in the remit of a mere man to ask such questions.
Incidentally there is no indication that Job did not already accept that God was the Creator and had the power to do as He pleased.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
37:6 Notice how Elihu speaks of God’s involvement in the weather. We see similar ideas in Psa 147:16. So do we think the weather patterns we see are a consequence of God’s or man’s actions?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
37:2-23 Now Elihu, speaking primarily to Job, invites Job to reflect on the various ways that God has been at work on the earth. In what we might simply call “nature”.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter
v.8 - here we have the essence of God manifest in Jesus - the house of David is clearly Zion or in the spiritual sense Christ, and here we are told it will be as God. It is a wonderful picture when taken with the rest of scripture. Psa.2:6-7, 110:1-2, Isa.7:13-14, 9:6-7, Jer.23:5-6 etc.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
12:6 Governors ... in a sheaf Obadiah 18
12:9 destroy all the nations Haggai 2:22
12:10 they shall look ... pierced John 19:37
12:11 -mageddon Revelation 16:16
12:10 they shall look ... and mourn Revelation 1:7
12:12 the land shall mourn Matthew 24:30
12:2 Jerusalem being a cup of trembling was a stark contrast to how she had been in the past and during the rebuilding of the walls and the temple. The adversaries of Judah and Benjamin were able to cause the inhabitants of Jerusalem to tremble. This message therefore, must have encouraged the inhabitants of the city.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.3 - Again we have Jesus language used of Zion. Here it is to be a burdensome stone, which indeed Jesus was to those who did not understand. Isa.8:14, 1Pet.2:8
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
12:3 introduces a recurring key phrase 'in that day' seen in the rest of the book (12:3 4 8 9 11 13:1 2 14: 6 13 20 ) We do well to realise that the chapters are related to each other by this phrase.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
12:10 The 'only son' 03173 is in fact a reference to Jesus. Consider how the word is used in other parts of Scripture.
Genesis 22:12,12.16
Amos 8:10
Psalm 22:20 'darling'
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
ZECH. 12. As we come to the final section of Zechariah’s prophesy we see three themes being continually repeated.
Jerusalem.
That day.
All nations.
Zech 12:11. A special day was set aside for the mourning of Josiah. (2Chron 24:26) This suggests there will be a specific ceremony of mourning when Israel humbles itself before Christ and seeks divine help. (Eze 16:60-61)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
12:2,6 The repeated 'people round about' would speak to the returning exiles of those adversaries who sought to thwart their work in rebuilding the temple and then the city of Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.12-14 Though Zechariah says the land shall mourn, his concern is with Jerusalem, and more particularly with the royal line, as David's mourning had been. When the royal family mourns all the nation mourn with them. The royal house (David and Nathan) and the priestly tribe (Levi and Shimel) will lead the national repentance.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
When Jesus returns, He will save His people from those who have invaded Israel and Jerusalem (vs.8,9; see also Eze 38,39). The Jews will recognize Jesus as the Messiah (v.10). Before Jesus destroys the invading enemy, many Jews will have be killed and much destruction will have occurred. When relief is finally realized, there will be a great mourning for the loss (vs.11-14). This will be reminiscent of the mourning given to Josiah (Hadad-Rimmon is a place in the Valley of Megiddo where the people mourned the death of Josiah) (2Chron 35:22-25).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Jerusalem will be “a burdensome stone for all people”, (Zech 12:3). This has happened. Now their position is decided politically as to whether they have many Jewish people in their country, such as America which needs the Jewish vote. Jerusalem is of-course to be the centre of the new world government. The new world order will require the complete acceptance of King Jesus, which will mean that the Jews mourn at first, but rejoice later.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
12:4 We are reading about God saving Israel and putting her enemies to flight. Israel had been told –Deut 28:28 – that they would be smitten with madness if they were faithless. Now we see their enemies being struck in the same way. Israel, by now, have turned to God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
12:8 Israel, in the past were placed in the care of angels (Exo 23:20), chief of whom, as far as this authority over the nation was Michael (Dan 10:21). But, the work of angels will be taken over by the saints in the coming age (Heb 2:5). In leading the nation to war, and later ruling them in peace, the saints will be "as the angel of God before them"
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
12:2 Having spoken about a regathering the prophet now speaks of yet another time of tribulation for Jerusalem. The people might have thought that was going to be just another accident of history. However the repeated use of ‘I’ in the rest of the chapters forces the recognition that the events that are to happen are at God’s instigation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
12:7 Judah, here is not just the tribe of Judah, but the nation of Israel. When we go back to the days of Zerubbabel and Jeshua we can clearly see that all the tribes of Israel are represented. (Ezra 6:17)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
V.1 Zechariah confirms the creative power of the LORD as Elihu had in the Job reading.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
12:6 The governors of Judah’ devouring ‘all the people’ is a fulfilment of what God promised through Obadiah - 1:18
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Vs.12-14 The mourning for the Jesus will be shown by every faction of Jewish society. Three comprehensive classes are described. First the kingly class: from David to Nathan implies from the king down to his younger son (2Sam 5:14). Then, there is the priestly class: from Levi to Shimei implies from the highest priestly order to the lowest (Num 3:18). Then, all families that remain. They shall all mourn for the Lord, both male and female.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
12:3 Notice that with the use of the word ‘I’ God is making it clear that he is the one that makes Jerusalem a burdensome stone. Given that this is so we should realise that no matter how men try they will not be able to resolve the middle east problem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Messianic prophesy of Christ being pierced but with no bones broken; the scars of his crucifixion will be visible when he returns erasing any question that Jesus is the messiah - Zech 12:10;13:6;Psa 22:16-18;34:20;John 19:31-34,37.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Charles
I CAN ONLY IMAGINE
Mercy Me sings a song called, "I can only imagine." It speaks about the time when we will finally meet Jesus face to face and asks us how we think we will react.
I can only imagine what it will be like when I walk by your side.
I can only imagine what my eyes will see when your face is before me.
I can only imagine.
Surrounded by your glory, what will my heart feel?
Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of you be still?
Will I stand in your presence or to my knees will I fall?
Will I sing Hallelujah? Will I be able to speak at all?
I can only imagine.
Zechariah leaves the Jews in no doubt as to how they will react to the return of Jesus. "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves." (Zech 12:10-12)
We need to ask ourselves how we will react at the time we come face to face with Jesus. Will we meet him in fear, rejection or love - or a bit of each? Will there be tears of regret over the way we have lived our present lives? Or will there be joyful praise for the strength, forgiveness and guidance we have received from the Lord? We can only imagine. But if we want to imagine or be sure of a better scenario, we can change the way we live.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Robert
12:1 The language here quotes the words of the prophet – Isa 42:5– encouraging the people to see their return from Babylon as the fulfilment of prophecy.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
12:9 In saying that God will ‘destroy all nations that come against Jerusalem’ we are seeing here a preview of what is described later in Zech 14:2,16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
12:4 The “madness” is not some natural illness. God promised – Deut 28:28– that if the nation were rebellious then they would become mad. The prophet is reminding the people of the warning given by God in Deuteronomy 28.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Zech 12:2 This verse indicates the anti-semitic nature of the invader that comes down on Jerusalem. They will lay siege to Jerusalem in order to satisfy their political and religious policies.
In addition, the invader will lay siege to Judah. Judah or, “the house of Judah” is a term that is used of the Jews that returned to Israel. (See,Zech 12:4,7). The Jews now reside on the mountains of Israel. We expect them to still be on the mountains of Israel, i.e. the West Bank, (Eze. 38:8-9) when the Lord intervenes in human affairs (Eze 38:18) to save them. The Lord Jesus Christ with the saints will overcome the enemy, (Zech 14:5).
Zech 12:3 The Roman armies came against Jerusalem in AD69-70. However, that was only a foretaste of what is yet to come. The prophet here speaks of a future time when, “all the people of the earth will be gathered together against it.”
Zech 12:4 The Lord will smite the riders with madness and “will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah” to deliver them. The “madness” is the same Hebrew word translated “furiously” in reference to the driving of Jehu (2Kin 9:20). Jehu drove his chariot of war with great speed and “furiously”, until he achieved his purpose in slaying Jehoram, Ahaziah and Jezebel (2Kin 9:21-33).
The Prophet Zechariah (Zech 12:4) picks up on the words of the Psalmist, (Psa 33:16-18). No King is saved by his own strength, “the multitude of a host”. Reliance on the horse (a as weapon of war) will not deliver him from the enemy. The “eye of the Lord is upon them that fear Him” and hope for His mercy, (also see, Psa 34:15).
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Zech 12:10-14. Several today -
1. V. 10 - "...They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." Who is the "me", and who is the "him"? What is the point in the switch of pronouns here in the same sentence from "me" to "him"?
2. Should one understand this passage to say that the majority of the Jews (if not all of them) will not be truly repentant until they physically see Jesus? Or is there another way to read this prophecy?
3. Is there a point in vv. 12-14 of Zechariah's elaboration on who is doing the mourning - the clan of the house of David and their wives, and the same for Nathan, Levi, and Shimei? Why are these 4 mentioned here?
1. Here is a great illustration of the principle of God manifestation - where God's own Son, the Lord Jesus, has the name of God applied to Him since he is the greatest representative of God Himself. This is true any number of times in Scripture with angels taking on God's name as well as some occasions of mortal men doing so. Here it doesn't seem to matter whether God is the "me" or the "him", whichever way you take it, Jesus is the other. Here's another example of this same kind of "apparent" (but not really so!) mix up of God and Jesus. In Phil. 2:9-11 Paul says,
"Therefore God exalted him (i.e. Jesus) to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
But here he's quoting the middle verse of Isa. 45:22-24 which reads,
"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.'..." So what was meant to be true of God, Paul through inspiration, applies to Christ.
One more in tomorrow's reading of Zech. 14: 3,4 -
"Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem....." So God will fight as He has before and yet his feet shall stand on the Mt. of Olives, which applies to Christ - the same place he ascended from into heaven and that the angels said he would return to just as surely as the apostles had seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11).
2. From what I have read from, I believe, reliable sources, the Hebrew of the phrase, "they shall look upon me..." is really "they shall look unto me..." The same is also true in the Greek when this passage is cited by John - John 19:37. So rather than the Jews' faith only coming into being at the time when they first lay their eyes on the immortal Jesus - as was the case with Thomas - there will come a measure of true repentance first along with a longing to see him, followed by his appearance to them which makes complete their initial faith. In effect, then, it's a fulfillment of what Jesus told Thomas at his first appearance to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen me and yet have believed" (Jn. 20:29). Any number of New and Old Testament passages point in that direction, including Jesus' own words in Mat. 23:39 - "For I say unto you, You will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" Here are just a few to get started with - Lev 26:40-42; Deut 30:1-3; Rom 11:15 - all these and more seem to carry on their surface that a change of heart must take place first before Israel's final redemption will take place.
3. David was, of course, a king; Nathan a prophet; Levi a priest; and Shimei a common Jew, a Benjamite. So the idea may be this - every type of Jew imaginable whether descended from royalty or priestly class or not - for any and all to be saved, they must show a sincere repentance and a belief in Jesus as their king.
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Wes
12:6 Jerusalem being inhabited “in her own place again” looks beyond the troubles associated with the events surrounding the return of Christ to the kingdom age when Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
12:2 When God says “I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling” we realise that the current conflict in the Middle East, whilst appearing to be different groups fighting against each other for their own “rights”, we can see that behind it all is God. So any “peace process” planned by man is doomed to failure. God is in control and will bring about His will.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
12:10 “They shall look upon me whom they have pierced” has a twofold fulfilment. It was fulfilled at the death of Jesus – John 19:37 – and will be fulfilled when Israel recognises Jesus as their Messiah – Rev 1:7.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
12:12 That the nation will “mourn” is exactly what Jesus says will happen when he is revealed to Israel – Rev 1:7
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
12:1 Notice how God, through the prophet, basis His claims on the fact that He is the Creator. We should appreciate that Creation narrative in Genesis is not something we can accept or not as suits us. The prophets repeatedly refer to the way in which God says that He created everything.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
It is exciting that we come to an end of a year where Russia continues to stake its claim to the middle east. The united kingdom kick started Brexit but no more perhaps than Jerusalem being recognised by the united states as the capital along with President Trumps speech on the 25th.
So we see Zech 12:2 coming into play.
The septugant translates the verse as a shaking threshold. The word cup is translated as threshold in Eze 40:6 and eslwhere a bowl or bason. Criminals were given a cup of wine while waiting for execution to dull their senses, it was a cup greatly desired by criminals.
Jersulam is seen by many to be a prize yet they have become intoxicated seeing the possesion of the land as some sort of prize.
Yet in Psa 2:6 we see Yahweh has a plan for Jerusalem and those that be gathered against it will be destroyed. Psa 2:4-6, Zech 12:4.
2018 will be interesting to see how Jerusalem further develops into this burdensome stone Zech 12:3 from that cup of trembling.
It was once considered a prize (prior to 2017) but here in Zech 12:3 we see it becomes a burdensome stone ( a stone so heavy flesh cannot lift it and falls back on them crushing them) Matt 21:44. Man will attempt to sort the problem of Jerusalem once and for all but will ultimatly be unable to.
Lift up your heads!
stephen cox [Sedgley UK] Comment added in 2017 Reply to stephen
12:1 Whilst there are a number of occasions when a word is spoken and it is called a “burden” there are only three times that we read of “the burden of the word of the Lord”. Here and Zech 9:1 and Hag 1:1
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
12:1 Notice the Creation language
Yahweh is speaking through the prophet
The basis for His authority is
Zech 12:1 which stretched forth the heavens
God is re-stating what He said through Isaiah
Isa 42:5 created the heavens
Stretched them out
We should not underestimate a literal Creation as the basis for God’s authority
Isa 42 the context salvation
Zech 12: the context salvation
If God did not “Create” then He is a liar
And His promise of salvation is empty
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
12:12 The way that the husbands are separated from their wives in mourning maybe has its origins in Exo 19:15and is the basis for the instruction in 1Cor 7:5.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
12:2-3 From the perspective of the world Jerusalem is a problem, a burdensome stone. But that Jerusalem would rise to be the city of God is far from their minds. Isn’t it a privilege to know God’s plan for the earth and His city?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
“When all the nations of the earth gather against her. In that day, I will make Yerushalayim a stone for all the peoples to lift; all who lift it shall injure themselves.”
The Israel Bible
Palestine, the constant factor in the Middle Eastern political environment, is marked by frequent attacks with the country of Israel. Palestine’s Arab neighbours, Syria, Saudi-Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, along with the contested Gaza Strip and West Bank, are sided with the Arab-Palestinians to declare war on Israel. They refuse to acknowledge and accept the State of Israel to this very day! Israel, but a sliver land, is surrounded by enemy nations.
Palestine was once a part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire up until 1917 having been defeated by the British forces. Jerusalem was once a part of the Ottoman Empire from 1516 – 1917. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, President of Turkey, said, “In this city that we had to leave in tears during the First World War, it is still possible to come across traces of the Ottoman resistance. So Jerusalem is our city, a city from us.” He refers to Israel as a “terror state,” and making Jerusalem, Israel’s capital, increased their murderous intentions against Israel.
The stage is set as the Turkey’s President Erdogan on May 18, 2021 called upon the international forces to conquer Jerusalem! Erdogan is aggressively prodding on the enemy nations of Israel who are in total support with his political ideology in taking back Yerushalayim.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Valerie
12:1 In specific ways, Zechariah actually is telling Israel that Yahweh created everything and finally created man. God is using this fact to form the basis for the certainty of the future time when Jerusalem will be a “cup of trembling” The fact that God created everything is often used as a basis for asserting that God will work in the future. Do we reflect on Creation to encourage ourselves about His plan?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
12:3 Jerusalem, a disputed city – is it Jewish or Palestinian – or Christian? Such a small place but a focus for tensions in our day. We might ask “Why are so many nations drawn to comment upon the city? Humanly speaking it is of little consequence. But we realise that God is in control and it is His city. Matthew 5:35
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
12:7 The house of David – of the tribes of Israel – is he head because it was through the House of David that Messiah came. God is careful to ensure that there will be no self-aggrandizement amongst the tribes in the kingdom – rather different from the way that Ephraim seems often to have thought highly of themselves
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
11:2 Jerusalem’s circumstances would change – for the better. In Isa 51:22 looks forward to the time that Zechariah is speaking of
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter
v.13 - Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord. Not all the dead, but those dead who die in the Lord. Only those die in the Lord who are in the Lord when they die. The Christian life, begun by faith and baptism into Christ (Rom. 6:3), is a life in Christ. To be assured of this blessed death one must live a Christian life.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
14:5 To be found without guile and having no fault is a twofold thing. We are to ensure that we have no guile in our lipsPsa 32:2, 34:13, 1Pet 2:1, 1Pet 3:10. Such individuals are those who will be blameless. Such individuals will be presented 'faultless'- same word - before the throne of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Babylon is fallen is fallen
|
Isa 21:9 | |
she made all nations drink ... wrath of her
|
Jer 51:7 |
And so once again we learn that Babylon - the arch enemy of Israel - is destroyed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
10:1-10 The sweet book which became bitter in the belly catches the circumstances of Ezekiel 3:1-14. The word of God is sweet as honey Psalm 119:103. However the message which it delivers to those who are rebellious is bitter.
11:2 The treading under foot of the court by the gentiles draws on Luke 21:24. It is a period of the desolation of the things of God. However just as Jerusalem will be restored so will be the fortunes of the nation of Israel for 'all Israel shall be saved ' Romans 11:26. This will happen when 'the fullness of the gentiles is come in'. Romans 11:25.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
14:4 following the "lamb" catches the command of Jesus. A typical example or many is Matt 16:24
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.3 The time of rejoicing and of singing for the redeemed is yet to come. Notice how the sighing of Habakkuk was turned into singing as he lifted his eyes from troubles of his day to the glory that shall yet flood the earth.Hab 1:2, Hab 3:18 As the sighing of Israel in Egypt Exo 2:23 was turned into singing on the day of deliverance.Exo 15:1. So it will be with the redeemed in the future age.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
V.4 To follow Christ is to do his commandments. Those who follow him in his humility will follow him in all his glory when the day of his enthronement on Mount Zion arrives.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
There are two classes of worshippers: those who worship Yahweh in spirit and in truth (John 4:23,24); and those who follow the gospel of error (Gal 1:6,7). The true followers of Christ will be redeemed (v.3), while those who have followed the apostate system of worship (v.9) will be destroyed (v.10). Notice that each class of worshipper is marked in the forehead; the redeemed (v.1); the condemned (v.9). Let us make sure that we bear the marking of salvation.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
14:9 There are many suggestions as to what the ‘mark of the beast’ actually is. There is no doubt it is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
Again the LORD, in our third reading, is endorsed as the creator of all things (v.7).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
14:19 The treading of God’s enemies as in a winepress contrasts with Israel’s fortunes at the hand of the Babylonians – Lam 1:15
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
V.4 The true followers of Christ are called virgins, those not having defiled themselves with women. This is a reference to following the Truth and not the spirit of error. The Roman church is the apostate system which is characterised as the latter-day Babylon. Amongst other things, she is called the MOTHER OF HARLOTS (Rev 17:5). She carries the spirit of error and, anyone acceding to her ways, has committed spiritual harlotry with her.
V.8 Babylon will, of course, be destroyed by the Lord Jesus when he returns to earth. What is of startling interest is the degree of destruction He will render. In v.20 His destructive rage will extend to 1600 stadia. This measurement approximates to 200 miles. The patrimony of St. Peter, as claimed by the Catholic Church, extends 200 miles from Rome.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
14:11 When the ‘recompense’ of ‘Zion’ is seen – Isa 34:8 the ‘smoke’ of her enemies will ‘go up for ever’ which is echoed here in Revelation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
14:15,17, 15:6 Notice the repeated ‘out of the temple’ thus showing the origins of the words. They are of God, not of men.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
Rev 14:6 After God’s judgments on the nations, the redeemed will stand on Mount Sion with the Lamb. There will be a final Gospel preaching campaign to the inhabitants of the earth, “to every nation and kindred, and tongue and people.” This will be the antidote to the teaching of the Papal system. See, Rev 17:15, the waters where the whore sits, “are peoples, and multitudes and nations and tongues.”
The Apostle John will be among those who will join in this preaching work of the angel. This is the same work as that of the rainbowed angel. John with the saints will preach “again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues and kings.” (Rev 10:1,10,11).
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
14:4 In speaking of the redeemed as “the firstfruits” we are reminded that this is how God expected natural Israel to be –Jer 2:3.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
14:10 Whilst the things that the world offers might seem appealing now they will be destroyed at Christ’s return. So will those who prefer the things of the world to the things of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
14:3 The song is “new” inasmuch as it was a song that only could be sung by those who had benefited from a belief in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
14:7 the phrase ‘him that made ... the sea’ quotes Psa 146:6 which Psalm encourages praise of God because of His power to
Psa 146:7 looseth the prisoner
Psa 146:8 opens the eyes of the blind
Psa 146:8 heals those who are bowed down
All actions which Jesus manifest in his miracles.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
14:4 When speaking of them “not being defiled with women” we realise that “women” here is representative of false teaching. This concept is seen often in the OT. An example is the woman in Prov 7 .
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
CHRIST’s PROCLAMATION TO THE NATIONS – AFTER HIS ENTRHONENMENT IN ZION
“This proclamation is the announcement of MILLENNIAL GOOD NEWS; namely, that the resurrection, immortalization, and inauguration of the called, and chosen, and faithful first fruits have been accomplished by Jesus Christ, who, having returned in power and great glory, has set up the ancient throne of his father David on Mount Zion; that being established there, he invites the allegiance of all nations to himself, as king of the whole earth by the grace of his Eternal Father, who has appointed him to execute judgment and justice in the earth, and to rule the world in righteousness; that he is prepared to destroy the powers that corrupt and oppress the nations, and to wipe away tears from off all faces, and to take away the rebuke of his people, Israel, from off all the earth. That his power is to change the face of the world and to enlighten mankind with the true knowledge from the rising to the setting sun. That, if they will accept this invitation to the feast he has prepared for all peoples, they shall live under their own vines and fig-trees, and in peace, and none shall make them afraid. But, if on the contrary, they determine still to worship the Beast and his Image, and to receive the sign in their foreheads, or in their hands, then shall they be made to drink of the wine of the wrath of the Deity, which hath been prepared without mixture in the cup of his indignation.”
Brother John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
Rev 14
THE JUDGMENT: NATIONAL AND INDIVIDUAL
“THE judgment that succeeds the Pentecostian proclamation in mid-heaven (vv. 6,7) is ‘national’ and executed by Christ and the saints. But before the proclamation begins, there is also judgment. This, however, is not national, but individual—a judgment having relation to the ancient apostolic proclamation (2Cor 5:10). The Son of Man presides judicially at both these gatherings before him, and in each sitting there is his right hand and his left. The right hand is synonymous with friendship, favour, alliance, peace, and reward; whilst the left is indicative of their opposites. Nations on the Son of Man’s right hand are ‘joined to Yahweh as his people’—the subjects of his empire; while individuals on the King’s right hand are associates with him in the glory, honour and power of his dominion. They share with him in the throne, as exhibited in Rev 4.
But in the judgment of the King’s household some have to pass to the left, ‘where shame and contempt’ await them. They arrive at his left hand after being ‘cast out’ from the divine presence ‘into the outer darkness, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.’ This left hand is in the country occupied by the goat nations, which, as the embodiment of all that is hostile to the kingdom prepared for the blessed of the Father, are styled by Jesus ‘the devil and his angels.’ These are the same as Daniel’s fourth beast, which are styled apocalyptically ‘the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and satan.'"
Brother John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
THE ANGEL-PROCLAMATION IN MIDHEAVEN
“NOW as to the precise time after Christ’s advent and the justification of his household by the Spirit, in which this proclamation through mid-heaven shall be made, it may be remarked, that it is immediately consequent upon the smiting of the Assyro-Gogian image upon the feet by the Stone Power, and before the grinding of its metallic and clay fragments to powder—Dan 2:34,35; Matt 21:44. It will therefore be in the interval between the Armageddon overthrow of the Sixth Vial, and the outpouring of divine wrath upon ‘the Air’ of the Seventh. This interval will be the period of this remarkable angel-proclamation.
The Armageddon discomfiture of the belligerents in the land of Israel; that is, of the Lion-power of Sheba, Dedan and Tarshish, and of its antagonist the Assyro-Gogian confederacy of the North, at Bozrah, and elsewhere (Eze 38:13,18,23; Isa 63:1; Dan 11:41-45)—will put Yahweh Tz’vaoth in possession of Jerusalem the Holy City, which he occupies as the Lamb with the 144,000. Standing thus upon Mount Zion, the Eternal Spirit, in multitudinous manifestation, is ‘in His dwelling place without fear, as dry heat impending lightning, as a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest’—Isa 18:4. He is ‘still’ as the calm and sultry atmosphere which precedes the tempest; and stands as the uplifted ensign upon the mountains—Isa 11:10,12; ready for the manifestation of those terrible judgments in the earth under the outpouring of which the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness—Isa 26:9. In this still dry heat of impending vengeance, the pentecostian proclamation of liberty and return is made; after which ‘the great trumpet is blown’ by Yahweh Tz’vaoth—Isa 18:3; 27:13; Zech 9:14;--the jubilee trumpet of the great day.”
Brother Dr. John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III
I have learned, as Brother Thomas had and applied, and evidenced by his writings, that the whole picture on any given theme weaves itself throughout, what I like to term, “the tapestry of Scripture.” Yahweh's ways are truly wonderful (Psa 118:23; Mark 12:11; cp. Prov 25:2)!
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
14:2 The first time we come across people being likened to “many waters” is in Num 24:7 where Balaam spoke of Israel’s seed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
14:15-18 From the way in which the angels are described we may conclude that different angels have designated responsibilities.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
14:1 the Father’s name in the forehead clearly contrasts with the number of the beast in the forehead – 13:16. For us the choice is simple. There are only two options. Either we are associated with the beast system and its plans or we are associated with God and His plan.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
Most of us have come to the realization that the world is rapidly changing and the times we are living in are no ordinary times. The world as we knew it is being re-constructed and is referred to as the, “Great Reset” to “Build Back Better.” Religious, political, and economic leaders are working together to bring about this change. Humanity, for the greater part feels trapped, yet, most are asleep as to the approaching destruction ahead.
We live surrounded with uncertainty; and patience is very much needed to live through an atmosphere of faith shaking events. As importantly, strong faith will be absolutely essential to get us through the times ahead. We are witnessing the intensifying winds of the religious, political and financial closing in on us. We face and will face many challenges just before the return of Jesus.
It is during turbulent times that patience, obedience, and faith are being tested. Life is changing and we are heading into a totally different kind of world from where we came and it won’t come back. We are facing a very insensitive political future: the unyielding pandemic, job losses, food shortages, lockdowns, protests, riots in the streets, brother against brother, family against family, and cutting off of friends all because they have different political ideologies. Some of us have families in the hospital in critical and serious condition fighting Covid and its variants. Yes, these last two years have been years of painful trials for so many of us. Even our individual freedoms, freedom of choice, have been stripped. These are all omens for humanity that a prophetic tsunami is on the horizon.
“A strange thing” fell upon us, as we read in 1Pet 4:12,13 about, “the fiery trial” we will experience, as being partakers of Christ’s sufferings. If we endure to the end (Matt 24:13), however, we shall also partake in his glory with exceeding joy. God’s urgent message is to be ready for what lies ahead. We are being caught up in this vortex of a changing world: we are hard-pressed, but not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; we are persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed (2Cor 4:8,9; cf. James 1:3,4) . Through it all, God will sustain us.
While the world is crumbling around us, we face a lot of challenges, but God is still in control. We always knew the time would come when the old order of things will make way for the new. Not the world’s new, but God’s new world order. God wins in the end, and this is very comforting! Events are changing for this very purpose. The stage is being set for the final battle between light and darkness, between truth and error. How blessed we are to know the end of it all, and this encourages us to patiently wait in all obedience to God, and grow strong in the faith, because it will surely come.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Valerie
14:5 Would we list ourselves amongst those described as John speaks in this verse?
We certainly can be amongst those who are without fault because this is what has been achieved by Jesus’ death and resurrection – Jude 1:24
However whether we are "without guile” is basically left to us to work on. Deceit and dishonesty are characteristics of Adam and all of his children – except Jesus – and we are supposed to be working on that problem right through our lives.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
14:1 the name in the forehead contrasts the mark of the beast in the forehead – 13:17 – We cannot be passive accepting whichever “mark” we see. We must make a conscious choice to be amongst those who see the “lamb” as the only way out of the problem of sin and death.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
14:5 “Without fault” describes those who God has called righteous. They are not inherently faultless. But because they are focussed on the right things are so counted.
So what is our motivation now?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
14:3 We read of the faithful singing “songs” on a number of occasions. We never read of the followers of the beast in its various incarnations in rev singing at all. The contrast it marked. Whilst the followers of the beast having nothing to sing about the redeemed have everything to sing about.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2025 Reply to Peter