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v.6 - We place such value on human life, but it is clear here that the life is only valued by God of people who serve Him. All other human life is dispensable. It is good for us to recognise this perspective and live our own lives accordingly.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
28:11 The phrase 'fierce anger of the LORD' is seen in the following places. Numbers 25:4 32:14 Jeremiah 4:8 12:13 25:37 30:24 51:45 Zephaniah 2:2
Of the 8 occasions 5 are found in Jeremiah and Zephaniah, the time of Josiah and the Babylonian overthrow.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.16-22 - How sad it is that Ahaz could not bring himself to ask help of the Lord. Instead he turns to man to his ever increasing detriment.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
28:3 It seems that Ahaz and Manasseh (2Chron 33:6) are the only king who burnt their children to other gods. Though I stand to be corrected - making such a bold statement can produce a flurry of corrections!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
NEVER TOO LATE
By the time Ahaz was king of Judah, the Northern tribes in Israel were about as bad as they could get. It was only 21 years after Ahaz took the throne in Judah, that their bothers in Israel were carried away into captivity. God had warned Israel time after time, and pointed out their sins through his prophets, much of which has been recorded for us. In 2 Kings 17 we can also see a condensed list of the sins that caused Israel to be evicted from God's land.
But even though Israel was so depraved, they were still able to respond to guilt from their greater sins. After Pekah son of Remaliah, king of Israel, defeated Judah, the prophet Oded warned Israel of their sin in taking out such a rage against Judah, and carrying off their brothers as slaves. And the people of Israel responded! Even though they were so hardened in their sins and we would have thought there would have been no room for a response of their conscience, they did not want to add to their guilt by sinning even more.
This instance can give us hope as we try to influence people who seem to be too set in their ways to change for the better. No matter how bad a person is, there is always hope. Let's not give up on anyone, but always keep trying to turn them towards God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
28:5-7 The events recorded here should be seen against the words of Isaiah (7:16) where Isaiah is seeking to engender Godliness in the king.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
V.3 Born in the days of Jotham, Ahaz had seen the rapid decline into idolatry and the devastation produced by foreign invasion. He had witnessed the disastrous consequences of an alliance with Assyria and had been there when his own brother had been offered in the fires of Molech.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
When reading this chapter, we should also read Isa 7 for background. Having done that, it is interesting to speculate who Immanuel is (are) that is mentioned.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
I once heard it suggested that 2Chron 28:15 is the basis of Jesus' parable on the Good Samaritan. It could well be.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
V.17-18 As a result of the decision to ignore the warning of Isaiah Isa 7 Ahaz choose to rely on himself and not on the Lord, and found himself with even greater problems. The Philistines invaded the west and the Edomites the east.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
28:5 In contrast with his father – who God blessed – Ahaz suffered at God’s hand – though it would have just looked as if the Syrians were stronger than he. It is all down to how one regards God working in the lives of His people.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
28:8-11 Israel had smitten Judah because of Judah’s sins. This was ‘of God’ however Israel did it in ‘a rage’ 2Chron 28:9. So Israel were encouraged to realise that they also had sinned against God like their brethren in Judah and to use that realisation as a basis for freeing the captives. This is rather like the parable of the two debtors Luke 7:41. Having been forgiven a large debt the servant should be willing to forgive a smaller debt to himself. How often do we, in a rage, pronounce a judgement when we are also guilty of other things? This is not to suggest that we should not address issues that need addressing. Rather I am suggesting that when we judge others we think about our own position also and let that realisation of our own weakness temper our judgement of others.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
V.23 The belief, in the Ancient Near East, was that a conquering nation succeeded in victory because its god (s) was (were) stronger than the defeated nation's god (s).
Take Assyria for example. Although Assyria had many gods, Asshur was considered the greatest, and all Assyrian military campaigns commenced at Asshur's command.
The Assyrians had never been defeated. No wonder Rabshakeh could make such a confident, boastful claim against Jerusalem (2Kin 18:33-35). He believed that his god Asshur was invincible.
Nations in the Near East would recognize the victorious god of a conquering nation and start worshipping it. That's what Ahaz was doing in worshipping the gods of Damascus.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
2 Chronicles 28
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Robert
28:20-21 Notice the word ‘but’ which joins these two verses. Ahaz was not strengthened because he has failed to trust God, viewing things of the temple as simply of monetary worth. So he should have learnt that one cannot buy security.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
V.3 Ahaz sacrificed his sons to Molech in the Valley of the sons of Hinnom (Gehenna).
V.27 Yahweh spared Hezekiah from being sacrificed to Molech. Ironically, Hezekiah would be the progenitor of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego).
Isaiah told Hezekiah that his progeny would be eunuchs in Babylon (2Kin 20:18). Daniel, Hananiah Mishael and Azariah were of the king’s seed (Dan 1:3,6). This was the fulfilment of Isaiah’s prophecy.
These three would also escape death through fire. Yahweh spared them when they were cast into Nebuchadnezzar’s furnace (Dan 3:12-30).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
28:1 Ahaz was alive through all the good reign of his faithful father and yet did not follow his footsteps. He clearly did not watch his father for the purpose of being instructed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.1 Ahaz means possessor.
V.3 Under the Law, priests had to burn incense (Exo 3:7,8; Luke 1:10). But, Ahaz was burning incense to foreign gods: He forsook the temple of the Lord and sacrificed and burnt incense on the hills, as if they would place him nearer heaven, and under every green tree, as if they would signify the protection and influence of heaven by their shade and dropping (Matthew Henry Commentary).
In the phrase: burnt his children (KJV); burned his sons (ESV), the word burnt (burned) comes from the Hebrew ba’ar which means (wholly) consumed by fire.
Just like the burnt offering under the Law, which was completely consumed by fire, these children were totally consumed by fire as a sacrifice to Molech. This was contrary to the Law (Lev 20:2-5).
V.16 Ahaz’s army had been diminished with 120,000 soldiers killed (v.6). He turned to Assyria for help instead of humbling himself before Yahweh, who would have helped him.
Vs.20,21 Instead of helping him, Assyria helped themselves to Ahaz’s gifts.
Vs.24,25 In his despair, anger, and frustration, Ahaz could have turned to Yahweh for help. But, instead of that, Ahaz turned to idolatry.
When we are angry and frustrated, do we turn to Yahweh for help, or do we turn away and seek help from the world. It all depends upon how much faith we have. And so, the task is to increase faith. That comes through reading the Word of God (Rom 10:17).
And remember, to gain Yahweh’s help, we must be proactive. Yahweh is a reactive God and will respond to whatever we do (2Chron 15:2; James 4:8).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
28:9 The mention of the prophet ‘Oded’ highlights the fact that there were more faithful prophets speaking the word of God than those whose words are recorded in Scripture.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
2Chron 28:1-2 - Ahaz was so evil he was lumped with the kings of Israel (2Chron 28:23,27).
2Chron 28:3 - the valley of Ben Hinnom was just SW of Jerusalem and children were burned there in sacrifice to Molech; in the New Testament it was referred to as "hell" (from "Gehenna") and the location had evolved into a garbage dump with fires continually burning to prevent the spread of disease, etc.; some people mistakenly assume this is a fiery underworld place where the dead aren't truly dead but where a loving God has the guilty and ignorant suffer a literal fiery torment for all eternity (Psa 145:20); the first lie was "you will not surely die" (Gen 3:4) and many still promote/preach/believe this lie. 2Chron 28:9 - "Oded" [<5752> is thought to mean "restorer, restoration, aided, reiteration"].
2Chron 28:12 - some feel these names strung together hint Yah is a preserver, gracious, and a burden bearer to the weak.
2Chron 28:13-15 - agree with observations of others this perhaps echoes the parables of the good Samaritan and the two debtors; it is a literal liberation of those enslaved and could have a spiritual application to those who will be liberated from enslavement to sin and death - perhaps the remnant that will return in the last days to restore the greatness of Israel in the times when the Messiah shall reign. It also shows how even brethren can physically (and spiritually) mistreat, kill and enslave each other and that God is against that.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
28:11-15 The return of the captives of Judah and the care taken of them and their being left in Jericho is the basis for Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan – Luke 10:30-36
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
OUR CHOICES AFFECT OTHERS
If we choose to disobey God, it is our decision and in the end we will personally face judgement for the choices we have made. But it is not just ourselves that it affects when we rebel against God.
Take, for example, King Ahaz. His life began with the influence of two good kings, Uzziah and Jotham, yet he turned away from their examples and "did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD." (2Chron 28:1) It was his choice and he was the loser because of it. But part way though the record of the sin and effects of Ahaz, we read this: "The LORD had humbled Judah because of Ahaz king of Israel, for he had promoted wickedness in Judah and had been most unfaithful to the LORD." (v.19)
The choices Ahaz made were choices that affected all the people around him. The people he affected were not just the people that advised him or encouraged him in his wickedness, but normal, every day parents and families whose lives were disrupted and destroyed by the choices Ahaz made.
Ahaz was a king and so his choices had much bigger consequences than ours. But even so, the choices we make will still have an effect on all the people around us.
Ultimately our sin is between us and God, but the people around us will still feel its consequences. Let us think carefully about our choices and choose the right way, leading others to life, and not to death.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Robert
28:10 Israel had been used to punish Judah. However, lest Israel thought of herself as better than Judah, the prophet advises them of their own sinfulness. The fact that God used them did not sanction their behaviour. In fact He used wicked foreign nations to fulfil His will. He brought the Chaldeans against the nation even though they were wicked.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
28:5 Ahaz Embattled On All Sides
Syria |
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Northern Kingdom |
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Edom |
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Philistines |
|
Assyria |
Notice the dire straits Ahaz was subjected to because he turned away from God. God was chastening him in the hope that he would repent. However Ahaz presumed that the troubles had come because God was powerless to save 2Chron 28:23
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
Ahaz inherited a mighty kingdom from Kings Uzziah and Jotham, who had both served God and as a result were blessed with strength, riches, and secure borders (e.g. 2Chron 27:6). Yet there was something lacking in this man's intelligence, being unable to attribute this great success of his forefathers to God, however much this might have been obvious. This chapter presents success/failure as a direct consequence of serving/rejecting God (see v2-5), yet he couldn't see that. How often do we see this clear link in our own lives, or do we ignore it as Ahaz did?
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Rob
28:6 The battle spoken of here which caused the deaths of many of the men of Judah may be the background to the way in which Isa 4:1 speaks of women seeking men.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
28:19 In saying that Ahaz ‘brought Israel low’ we are being directed to think about the punishment that God would bring against Israel if they were unfaithful to Him –Deut 28:43.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
28 The Parable Of The Good Samaritan and Ahaz
2 Chronicles 28 |
Words |
Luke 10 |
Words |
naked |
Stripped |
||
eat |
oil wine |
||
drink |
:34 |
oil wine |
|
:15 |
carried |
:34 |
set him on |
:15 |
feeble |
wounded |
|
:15 |
asses |
own beast |
|
:15 |
Jericho |
Jericho |
|
Samaria |
Samaritan |
The uncaring attitude of the king of Israel, being reproved by the prophet, caused Israel to return the captives to Judah. This forms the basis for the parable of the Good Samaritan
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
28:24 Whereas Ahaz shut the doors of the temple his son, in the first year of his reign, opened them2Chron 29:3
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
28:17 The record that Edom had “carried away captive” matching exactly the Hebrew of Deut 21:10 – two Hebrew words <7617> <7628> - which are only found together on four occasions. The point being made here is that due to Israel’s disobedience Edom is doing what they should have been doing to Edom.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
28:18 This is the second, and only other, time that Shocho <<7755> has been mentioned as a place where the Philistines had invaded the town. The previous one is in the time of David – 1Sam 17:1
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
28:27 In not bringing Ahaz into the sepulchres of the kings we see the people made a clear distinction between faithful and unfaithful kings in their burial.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
28:21 On more than one occasion items are taken out of Yahweh’s temple to try and appease a foreign power. Such behaviour would imply that the one giving away material out of the temple had no real regard for the system of worship that Yahweh had set up.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
28:8-15 Judah, under the leadership of Ahaz, earned the wrath of Yahweh. So 200,000 of Judah were taken captive by the northern kingdom. It was judgment against Ahaz. However this did not give the northern kingdom the right to abuse those taken captive. As the prophet reminded them. They likewise had turned away from Yahweh. This produced a godly response in the north and the captives were returned, suitably clothed and fed. They resisted the temptation to excess in their retribution of Judah. It is all too easy for us to go beyond what is necessary in reproving others. We do well to remember our own frailties when reproving others.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
28:2 Ahab had introduced Baal worship an though Elijah seems to have opposed it we see it returning again in the days of Ahaz. The worship of anything other than the Creator seems be the natural tendency of men and women! Do we think we are any different or do we recognise that we each have our own “Baal” that gets in the way, from time to time, of our worship of our heavenly Father?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
28:5 We cannot emphasise enough the word “wherefore”. Ahaz doubtless saw the Syrian attack as just the sort of thing that happened between nations. If Ahaz gave heed to scripture he would realise that such events were punishments from God for rebellion against Him – see Lev 26 and Deut 28
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
v.2,16 - This river Ulai is only mentioned here. I can't find it in my (fairly comprehensive) Bible Atlas. One wonders if it is of more spiritual significance. It is a Persian word meaning 'my leaders' or 'my mighties'.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
8:13 The prediction Daniel 8:12 of the casting down and oppression of the truth caused one 'saint' [angel] to speak to another. Daniel 8:13 Which produces information about the king of fierce countenance. Daniel 8:23 Which provides the background for the comment made in Daniel 9:24
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.16 (and 9:21) - We only read of Gabriel here and in Luke 1:19,26 where he comes to predict Jesus birth. The name Gabriel means 'Champion of God'.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
8:1 Being the third year of Belshazzar we are now two years on from Chapter 7 (7:1) The use of 'without hand' (8:25) echoes Daniel 2:45 - Daniel would have seen the link, so should we.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
8:13 The treading underfoot is picked up by Jesus (Luke 21:24) and applied to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
8:27 Daniel was "sick" but "none" understood it. So we can conclude that Daniel discussed his vision with others to try to work out what it all meant. Do we discuss Scripture with our brethren and sisters to develop our understanding?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
Chapter 8 marks the beginning of a new section of the book, indicated by a change of language in keeping with the change of thought From 2:4 to 7:28 was written in Aramaic; but chapter 8 on, the language returns to Hebrew. The prophecy is now more particularly occupied with the history of the nations as it directly effects Israel.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
V.4 etc. This prophecy concerns the rise of Alexander the Great who superseded the Medo-Persian empire. Alexander is represented by the he goat. He built a great empire which stretched from Greece to India.
Upon Alexander's death, four generals struggled for leadership (vs.8,22). Then there emerged two strong leaders among them, one controlled the north (Seleucids) and the other controlled the south, including Judea (Ptolemies).
In 200 BC, Antiochus III (a Seleucid king) defeated Egypt and took control over Palestine, and the Ptolemies declined. Jewish worship was defiled under Antiochus (vs.10-12;23-25). The temple was used for pagan worship where it was reported that pigs were sacrificed.
It was under Antiochus IV (175-164 BC) that the Maccabean revolt took place (167-165 BC). At this time that the supposed miracle of the lamp stand whose flame never extinguished occurred.
The temple was cleansed and rededicated. The feast of dedication was introduced (John 10:22). Hanukkah, the festival of lights, commemorates the rededication of the temple. It is still celebrated by Jews today.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
V.2 The river Ulai (KJV) was a canal off the Tigris. It was divided into two branches upstream. That is the reason Daniel talks about being between two banks (v.16).
Susa (transcribed in Hebrew as Shushan) was located about 250 miles east of Babylon in Elam and was made the winter capital of the Persian Empire by Cyrus. It was also the capital where Esther and Ahasuerus are believed to have reigned (Est 1:2).
Daniel's vision in the third year of Belshazzar's rule was, therefore, fast-forwarded to a time in the Medo-Persian Empire just before the ascendancy of Alexander the Great who subsequently captured Susa and took away its treasures.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
V.13-14 - Possibly this refers to when the Jews lost control of Jerusalem in 333 BC. If one subtracts 333 BC from 2,300 (Eze 4:6 mentions a day for a year) one arrives at 1967 when the Jews retook Jerusalem.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Charles
8:10 The casting down of some of the stars to the ground is the basis for Rev 12:4. So understanding this section of Daniel is a pre requisite to understanding Rev 12.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
8:12 The ‘little horn’ was given power by God – see also :24. Just another detail that shows that it is the Most High who is ruling Dan 4:17,
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
8:8 Alexander's empire was at its peak at the time of his death at Babylon, which came about as the result of a fever. One would have never thought that it could fail; however, the strongest empire in history up to this time did fall, it was broken. History further records for us that within two years Alexander's brother Philip, and Philip's two sons were all murdered.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
Vs.15-27; 9:20-27 The archangel Gabriel (meaning strong of God) appears four times in the Bible: twice to Daniel; once each at the announcements of the births of John (Luke 1:8-20); and Jesus (Luke 1:26-38).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
8:23 the ‘king of fierce countenance’ had already been prophesied – Deut 28:50
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
8:25 The breaking of this power ‘without hand’ echoes the way in which the image will be broken – 2:45
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.19, 23-26 - Does this have application to the last days? Who or what is the king? Is it Putin? Is it a religious leader with origins in Greek philosophy that corrupted Bible teachings? Is it a condensed version of anti-God rulers from Antiochus Epiphanes through pagan and Papal Rome, Turk, and what ever manifestations may take place until the Messiah comes in power? Does the Prince of princes refer to Christ and his second coming?
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Charles
V.1 This was in 550 BC.
V.3 The two horns of the ram represented the Medes and the Persians. The Medes preceded Persia. But, Persia rose to prominence, becoming greater than the Medes. Persia is represented by the higher horn.
V.4 The Medo-Persian Empire expanded. To the north, the Scythians were conquered; to the west, Greece; and to the south, Egypt.
Vs.5-7 Alexander the Great defeated Medo-Persia.
V.8 Alexander forged a great empire which extended from southern Europe to India. However, Alexander died young at aged 32, after 13 years on the throne. The one horn of Alexander, now broken, was succeeded by four horns. Four generals took over leadership of the empire.
V.9 The little horn represented Antiochus Epiphanes.
V.11 Antiochus invaded the temple and took away the morning and evening sacrifices for three-and-a half years.
V.12 The temple service was discontinued, but in its place pagan worship, including the sacrifice of pigs, occurred.
V.13 Saint (KJV); holy one (ESV) is probably descriptive of an angel. The wonder is: how long will it be before the liberation of the temple, and the return of true sacrifice?
V.14 2,300 evenings and mornings equates to 6 years and 110 days. Antiochus forbad any sacrifice to take place for 3 years and 6 months (Josephus). And so, the angel’s tabulation would have started from the events of the little horn’s activity (Alexander’s Empire building).
Vs.23-25 Gabriel is now expressing latter events which are nothing to do with Antiochus. They have to do with Rome. First, there was Imperial Rome who dominated the Jews and the Holy Land. The destruction of the temple in 70 AD, with over 1,000,000 Jews killed, was a statement of the power and cruelty of Rome.
Then, Imperial Rome gave way to Ecclesiastical Rome which will stand up in opposition to Jesus when He returns. A prominent person from Ecclesiastical Rome will come forward as the leader and challenge the authority of Jesus as King of the World. He and his followers will make war with Jesus (Rev 17:4). But the Lord Jesus will overcome them. The enemy shall be broken--but by no human hand (See Dan 2:34).
V.26 The 2300 days must apply also to a future event. On a-day-for-a-year principle, 2300 years from 550 BC would be 1550 AD. An important even did occur on July 21st. of that year. The Society of Jesus (Jesuits) was definitely approved by Pope Julius III. This organisation was, and still, is dedicated to promoting the Catholic Church by whatever means.
In England, the Jesuits were responsible for assassination plots against King James 1; Queen Elizabeth 1; and the Gunpowder Plot to blow up the Parliament buildings. All plots were foiled and the perpetrators were executed.
What was sealed in Daniel's time was opened by Jesus in the Apocalypse (Rev 22:10). Jesus expounded prophecy against this false system of worship and its ruler, and their ultimate end, which is destruction (Rev 18:2,21;19:20).
If you would like a copy of The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits to see how vicious this society is, please e-mail me.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
Susa (Shushan) in v2 is the place where Esther and Mordecai were (Est 1:2) and Nehemiah (Neh 1:1). It reminds us that it was presumably the combined effect of Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-nego, Esther, Mordecai and Nehemiah on the rulers of this Babylonish / Medo-Persian empire that caused Cyrus to send the Jews back to the land and continue the empire's support for them. Many of the kings they influenced are mentioned in Ezra 4:1-7.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Rob
8:5 That Daniel was ‘considering’ what he had seen during the vision indicates that the prophets were not simply recipients of revelation. They thought about it as well. Peter comments on this 1Pet 1:10-12
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
8:16 That Daniel had to be made to understand the vision is exactly what had happened previously. Daniel was not able to expound visions through his own wisdom.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
8:10 In the Olivet prophecy – Matt 24:29 – the start falling from heaven echoes what is spoken of here in Daniel’s prophecy.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
1. Dan 8:2 - "in a vision...I was at 'shushan'(<7800> means lilly or white)" - that Daniel envisions himself in the Medo-Persian palace of Shushan divided by a river (as was Babylon) suggests Babylon would be overthrown; "Elam"(<5867> means "eternity") and perhaps foreshadows the purity of an eternal kingdom and the mighty river of life (Rev 22:1-3) which perhaps suggested future hope despite the unfortunate events that would preceed.
2. Dan 8:3,20 - a ram with two horns represents the Medo-Persian empire.
3. Dan 8:5,21 - the he goat with one horn from the west on the face of the whole earth represents Alexander the Great.
4. Dan 8:7 - the Medo-Persian military was overthrown by Alexander the Great.
5. Dan 8:8 - "the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones" - after Alexander's death at age 33 his empire was divided up between his generals Lysimachus, Casander, Ptolemy, and Seleuchus.
6. Dan 8:9 - "came forth a little horn" (the little horn probably refers to the military expansion of Rome in the east etc. which was given an assist by certain Grecian powers allied with Rome, some believe the little horn may refer to Antiochus Epiphanes who was a Syrian persecuter of the Jews but where did he magnify himself to the prince?); "and toward the pleasant land" (the land promised to Abraham, the land of Israel).
7. Dan 8:9-12,23 - the little horn or king of fierce countenance opposed Israel and Christ so this could be the ruling Roman authorities, Herod the Great, Pilate, Titus, etc. with a future echo perhaps being the leader of the Gogian host who will oppose Israel and Christ.
8. Dan 8:10 - "the 'host'<6635> of heaven" (i.e. Israel Exo 12:41); "it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground" (Rome suppressed the Jewish army, people and the Jewish leaders represented as the stars Isa 14:13-14).
9. Dan 8:11 - "he magnified himself even to the prince of the host" (i.e. the ruling Roman authorities such as the Idumean Herod the Great Matt 2:1-20 and the reluctant Pilate who when pushed by the Jewish leaders opposed the prince of the host, Jesus Christ); "and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down" (in A.D. 70 Rome under Titus destroyed the temple in Jerusalem).
10. Dan 8:12 - "an 'host'<6635> was given him" (this is the host/army of Rome not Israel); "against the daily sacrifice by reason of 'transgression'<6588>" (the leaders of the Jewish people rejected the Messiahship of Jesus and demanded his crucifixion which Roman authorities carried out); "it cast down 'the truth'<571> to the ground" (pagan Rome opposed the true Christian religion based on the covenants of promise).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
12. Dan 8:13-14 - during this period daily sacrifices will fail to be offered with the defiled sanctuary and host to be trodden underfoot; the temple has not yet been cleansed which suggests it will take the return of Christ and the kingdom on earth unless one considers the 1967 retaking of Jerusalem by the Jews as a fulfillment of sorts; not certain whether the 2300 days (days? years? literal? figurative?) applies to one of the stages in the politcal developments of the vision, or to the actual suspension of the daily sacrifices in 70 A.D.
13. Dan 8:14 - did the 2300 days commence at the epoch of Alexander the Great's victories? Did the 2300 days commence with the three year suspension of sacrifices and desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes (circa 168-165 B.C.)? Certainly the daily sacrifices were suspended along with the sanctuary and host being trampled by Titus in 70 A.D. (Luke 21:24).
14. Dan 8:15 - "of a man"<1397>.
15. Dan 8:17 - "O son of man" (Daniel types Christ).
16. Dan 8:17,19,26 - "at the time of the end shall be the vision...last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be...shut thou up the vision; it shall be for many days" (explains the last end of the indignation along with other verses hinting at a future destroyer along with suggestions of the resurrection).
17. Dan 8:18 - "I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright" (Daniel figuratively died and was resurrected typing Christ and those "in him", the time of the end is associated with the resurrection).
18. Dan 8:23,25 - the little horn or a form of it "a king of fierce countenance, 'and understanding'<995> 'dark sentences'<2420>" is still in existence at the time of the end so could this be a personification of sin or a succession of rulers opposing God's truth (1Cor 1:22-23;Acts 17:23) with one final head of a Gogian host or religious antichrist? Is it possible in a metaphoric sense that the sanctuary or temple with daily sacrifices also has a secondary application to Christ, who sacrificed his fleshly desires on a daily basis (Dan 8:9-14;John 2:19-21) and will soon return to the earth to rule and establish in his full glory in manifesting his Father while sitting on David's throne? Even faithful believers in a sense can be considered God's temple (1Cor 3:16 NIV - "...you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you").
19. Dan 8:24 - "'And his power'<3581> 'shall be mighty'<6105>, but not 'by his own power'(<3581> Dan 2:21;4:17): 'and he shall destroy'<7843> 'wonderfully'<6381>, 'and shall prosper'<6743>, 'and practise'<6213>, 'and shall destroy'<7843> 'the mighty'<6099> 'and the holy'<6918> 'people'<5971>" - Is this the Roman military of 70 A.D. etc.? Does it also have application to the future?
20. Dan 8:25 - "through 'his policy'<7922> 'also he shall cause craft'<4820> to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by 'peace'(<7962> can mean security genuine or false) shall 'destroy'<7843> many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (i.e. he will oppose Christ); but he shall be broken 'without hand'(i.e. without human hand Dan 2:34,45)" - who is this king of fierce countenance who opposes Christ? A succession little horns opposed to God's ways? Is it Rome? Is it the antichrists or a final apostate antichrist who fools people with deceit and the appearance of peace? Is it the leader of the Gogian host? Is it fleshly nature and sin?
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
8:15 There are many things that we do not understand in Scripture. Daniel, here, gives us an example in such situations. He “sought for the meaning …” Is this how we react when we see things in Scripture we do not understand? Or do we just shrug off the matter and give it no further thought?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
“Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.”
Since Persia figured in the overthrow of ancient Babylon (today, Iraq), the geographical setting of the vision was significant in as much as Shushan (v. 2) was the capital of Persia where Nehemiah and Esther lived (Neh 1:1; Est 1:2-5; 2:3-5).
The two horns represent the Medo-Persian dual Empires. Media under Darius the Mede, enjoyed supremacy before Persia did under Cyrus the Persian (cf. Dan 6:1,28; 9:1; 10:1); but of the two, Persia eventually became the greater power - the higher horn (v. 4).
Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews, Book X, chapter X1, section 7, writes: “… God interpreted the appearance of this vision [of the ram] after the following manner: He said that the RAM signified THE KINGDOMS OF THE MEDES AND PERSIANS, and the horns of those kings that were to reign in them; and that the last horn signified the last king, and that he should exceed all the kings in riches and glory.” The ram signified kingdoms, not one combined kingdom (note v. 20). The Mede and Persian Empires as separate kingdoms are also represented in the unequal horns of the ram, and this distinction is made throughout the book of Daniel. Babylon was taken by Darius (Dan 5:31), and he with Cyrus put an end to the dominion of the Babylonians.
Today, the Kurds of northern Iraq are believed to be the modern day descendants of the ancient Medes of the Median Empire of Daniel’s day. The Illustrated Bible Dictionary (1897) by M.G. Easton lists the Medes as part of the Assyrian Empire, which covers the area of today's Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. The army that destroyed Babylon in Dan 5 was a combined army from Medo-Persia (Kurds-Iran). Cyrus II, the Great, was half Mede on his mother’s side, Mandane, a daughter of Astyages, king of Media (585- 550 BC.). His father was Cambyses I, the Elder, king of Anshan, in Persia, 600 - 559 BC.
We read in Isa 13:1,17-22 that the Medes (Kurds) would wreak God's final judgment upon the people of Babylon (Iraq). Today, a Kurdish state exists, an independent state, known as Kurdistan, autonomous from the rest of Iraq, yet a part of Iraq. They are now in a position to gain power where they could strike westward, northward, and southward, exacting the kind of disastrous annihilating judgment which God pronounced. Despite the Kurds fierce opponents, they have a fierce military force and they will not disappear from the world’s stage. Babylon was never destroyed in the way Isaiah and Jeremiah (Jer 50; Jer 51:1-4) described, as being like Sodom and Gomorrah never to be inhabited.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Valerie
“… And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land… by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down…”
This little horn arises out of one of the four horns of the third beast (vv 8,9). It is not the same little horn of Dan 7 that arose from the terrible fourth beast that came from the 10 horns (Dan 7:7,8,11.19,20). Otherwise, both “horns” were imbued with strength and both afflicted and made war against God’s holy people.
The two-horned Medo-Persian Empires were conquered by Greece represented by a one-horned goat (Dan 8:21). Goats are tougher than rams and this goat attacked the ram with great speed and ferocity. The he goat covered and conquered all that part of the earth lying to the west of the Persian Empire and stormed across the Hellespont into Persia against the ram. Alexander continued to conquer and expand in rapid succession the then known world from Egypt to India, from Greece to Mesopotamia, but then his horn was broken at the height of his power.
The Grecian kingdom was then divided among four of his generals. They ruled over four main regions:
Antigonus’ ruled in the region of Macedonia.
Lysimachus ruled over the western portion of Asia Minor (Turkey), and Thrace in Europe.
Seleucus Nicator ruled in Syria, in addition to portions of Asia Minor.
Ptolemy ruled in the region of Egypt.
It is out of one of these four ruling regions that another little horn rose into prominence. “Out of one of them” refers to the four horns, not winds (cf. v 8). This little horn became exceeding great, cast down the sanctuary of God and took away the daily sacrifice. Who is this little horn?
Antiochus IV Epiphanes was a Hellenistic Greek king of the Seleucid Empire. He wanted to assimilate the Hebrews into the prevailing Greek culture, but most refused. Antiochus then desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem, offered swine on the altar, and rededicated it to Zeus. He put many of the Hebrews to death simply for observing the Sabbath. Still, the Hebrews would not submit to him. His cruel persecutions provoked a bloody revolt, and under the leadership of Judas Maccabeus, they were liberated from Syrian control.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Valerie
8:24 In telling us that the Roman strength was not by his own power we learn, again, that God is in control – Dan 4:17 comes to mind again.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Nick
8:4 The four beasts that Daniel saw are God’s view of the four nations that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream in Dan 2 .
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
8:10-11 We might feel we can identify, prophetically, when these things happened. However we should spare a thought for Daniel. How would he feel when he knew that faithful believers were going to be persecuted? How would we feel if we knew of the problems that some of our fellow believers were going to suffer? There is more to prophecy than foretelling the future. We should enter into the feelings of those involved in the prophecies. The one given the revelation and the ones who would experience its fulfilment.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
8:7 “Choler” <4843> is elsewhere translated “grieved” Gen 49:23 “provoke” Exo 22:21 “vexed” 2Kin 4:27 which helps us to understand the word’s use here in Daniel. It is telling us that animal which represented a nation was angry.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
No short dispute exists over the identity of the “little horn.” Preterists regard the little horn as the Seleucid tyrant, Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175–163 BC). Historicists advocate Rome. Futurists also opt for Antiochus IV. The majority of us, likewise, attribute the "little horn" to Antiochus Epiphanes IV, but on further study, this is questionable. Here's why:
Bible and History inform us that the little horn desecrates the sanctuary, the daily sacrifices were stopped, and the “sanctuary was cast down” (Dan 8:11-14). Antiochus IV offered sacrifices of unclean animals, desecrating the sanctuary (1 Macc 1:41–50), but there is no evidence that he destroyed the sanctuary building, only that he plundered it and defiled it by sacrificing unclean animals on the holy altar (1 Macc 1:20–24, 54–55, 59). The sanctuary was still there! The desecration of the sanctuary and the abolition of the sacrifices transpire in connection with the transgression and abomination that desolates and with the sanctuary destroyed all happening as one event (Dan 8:11-13; Dan 9:27; Dan 11:31; Dan 12:11).
Almost universally, Antiochus IV is believed to be the desolater of the sanctuary, and I see why, but Christ referred to this desolater as still future in his day. He said, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matt 24:15). We must allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, and particularly when Christ gives specific guidance and urges that understanding be sought in this matter. There could be no clearer refutation of a second century BC interpretation that Antiochus IV is being referred to here by Daniel.
The apocryphal book of Maccabees, is believed to have been written by a Palestinian Jew, name unknown, about 100 BC, who assumed that the desecration of Jerusalem’s temple by Antiochus IV was the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy of a coming “abomination of desolation” (1 Macc. 1:52–55). The Book of Maccabees read Antiochus IV into Daniel. One example of this comes from the use of Dan 8:10 in 2 Macc 9:9,10: “A short while beforehand he had thought to grasp the stars of heaven…” According to Maccabees, it was Antiochus IV who thought he could “grasp the stars of heaven.” This proves nothing. Furthermore, one has to read very studiously in trying to discern, which Antiochus they are talking about as it relates to history.
By the time Antiochus IV Epiphanes (god manifest) came to power, the “pleasant land,” or “beautiful land,” already belonged to him and his expansion paled in comparison to that of Antiochus III the Great who reached India (1Macc 8:6-8). Antiochus III had already secured the pleasant land, believed to be Palestine (Josephus Ant. 12:3.3-4).
Antiochus IV was a wicked tyrant. He did not conquer the “pleasant land.” Antiochus IV did not exceed the Greek and Roman Empires in greatness, and his ambition for greatness in conquering Egypt and Rome met with utter failure! https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/antiochus-the-madman/ As powerful as he was, he did not “wax exceeding great” (Dan 8:9).
Antiochus IV persecuted and killed 80,000 Jews, desecrated their altar, which caused a revolt to overthrew their Syrian oppressors (1Macc 1:20-62; 2Macc 5-6; Josephus Ant. 12.5.3-4), but Scripture also tells us that he would oppose the Prince of Princes, which Antiochus IV did not.
The Bible and History evidences the incongruities of the little horn being assigned to Antiochus IV, as it relates to Dan 8, ruling out its fulfilment before 70 AD, “the time of the end,” as Daniel prophesied (Dan 8:17). The temple would be destroyed and the sacrifices ceased, as Christ prophesied - in its entirety at the same time by the Roman Legions. http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1589-antiochus-iv-epiphanes/
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
The little horn comes out of one of the four horns (v. 9); grows exceedingly great (vv. 9,10) and travels toward the south, toward the east, toward the pleasant land; is a persecuting power (vv. 10,25); exalts himself as a god (vv. 11,25); takes away the daily sacrifices and casts down the sanctuary and the truth to the ground (vv.11,12); succeeds and prospers by its craftiness (vv. 12,24,25); is connected to the transgression of desolation (v. 13); at the end of 2,300 days, the sanctuary is cleansed (v. 14); vision extends to the time of the end (vv. 17,19,26); comes up in the “latter end” of the four horns kingdoms when “the transgressors are come to the full;” is a "king of fierce countenance; understands dark sentences [as opposed to the light] (v. 23); is mighty, but not by his own power (v. 24); stands up against the Prince of princes; is broken without hand (v. 25).
What person or power fits all these descriptions is the challenge, since there are individuals and powers that fit some of them, but not all of them, hence, we get different viewpoints like Antiochus Epiphanes IV, Mohammed, the future Antichrist, the Papacy, and Pagan and Papal Rome.
It is really important to know the right interpretation because it has created a prophetic problem and needs to be corrected with a true premise that will coincide with truth and blend prophecy with prophecy. The description given of the little horn must fit all of the descriptions given to Daniel, otherwise, we would have to accept the inaccuracy of the book!
While Antiochus Epiphanes IV is the most favoured interpretation, it is wrong, I was wrong, he is not the “little horn.” While he was King of Syria from 175-163 BC, he did not come out of the Kingdom of Syria, he was part of the Syrian horn! We cannot claim Antiochus IV as King of Syria and at the same time be a distinct power, a little horn that “came out of” Syria. His territory was none other than a Syrian king in the line of the Seleucids and he was never a great power, let alone a “king of fierce countenance.” Furthermore, history reveals only three of the above points mentioned applied to him! The Seleucid Kingdom did not end at his death, but lasted for another 100 years!
Mohammedanism failed the test. Though they did become exceeding great it was not by their power, but by their fanaticism, were fierce, and meet a few of the criteria, but it did not come from one of the four horns. It came several centuries too late, and travelled in different directions.
The future alleged Antichrist is ruled out as we would have to assume that all of Daniel’s descriptions apply to him, as it cannot be proven: his arriving is too late to be the “little horn.”
The Papacy, as a separate entity fails, coming on the scene much later to be the “little horn.” It is not synonymous with the little horn of Dan 7, as the prophecy unfolds from Babylon to the Judgment. There are actually “two little horns.” Dan 8 covers the combined periods of the ten-horned beast plus the little horn in Dan 7. The Papacy alone is not the little horn of Dan 8.
Pagan and Papal Rome combined two powers cover the same period of time as those two powers given in Dan 7. Combined they meet all of the criteria and supported ecclesiastically and by history! These combined powers are described as having one symbol –“little horn.” The ten-horned beast succeeds the four kingdoms in Dan 7 and the little horn succeeds the four kingdoms in Dan 8.
Just because the majority of commentators, and even some historians, apply the little horn to Antiochus Epiphanes IV, it doesn’t mean it is right. Truly, this is a great example in the power of prayer, diligence, faithfulness in studying and searching for Truth where incongruities exist.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
8:2 “Elam”, whilst having been opposed to Israel, was going to be overthrown and Yahweh would have his throne there. The vision which Daniel saw show the way that this will happen. Hence the significance of the mention of Elam.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
8:13 When we see the turmoil in the world and the anxieties that men and women have is our question “how long?” Whilst those around us might be asking how long will the current problems continue our “How long?” should be looking to the bigger picture. We know the end. We know God’s kingdom will be re-established on the earth. Is this what we are yearning for?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
“And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great…”
Notwithstanding the predominant number who hold to the Antiochus IV Epiphanes viewpoint as the little horn, this view is based primarily on the Maccabean accounts and while he was a horrendous and vile person, desecrating the Temple and putting an end to the daily sacrifices, he wasn’t the little horn. Our interpretation of Dan 8:8,9 is the real problem for we read a little horn came out of one of the “four notable ones.” The Amplified Bible actually has for Dan 8:9, “Out of littleness and small beginnings one of them came forth (Antiochus Epiphanes) …” Amazing! Antiochus IV Epiphanes was a Seleucid King, the 8th from a line of Kings. Furthermore, how can he be the little horn, a horn in a horn, a kingdom rising within a kingdom, when each horn had its own sovereign Kingdom according to Daniel? We would have a total of five horns for the Grecian Empire, but the prophet Daniel wrote there were four. History reveals that Antiochus IV Epiphanes was never anything other than a Syrian King in the line of the Seleucids and failed in many respects. Historically, Seleucus 1 Nicator was considered the greatest of the Seleucid line of Kings. https://iranicaonline.org/articles/seleucus-kings#SeleucusI/
While Antiochus IV Epiphanes fits some of the descriptions, they don’t fit all of them. Alexander the Great was described as being “very great” (Dan 8:8), then attributes “exceeding great” to Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Dan 8:9)? Did he really reach to such superlative heights greater than that of Alexander the Great? Josephus wrote: “King Antiochus returning out of Egypt, through fear of the Romans, made an expedition against the city of Jerusalem…” https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-12.html/ Chapter 5:3. (Italic mine)
Antiochus IV Epiphanes took directions to conquer the South, Egypt; East, Armenia and Persia, and Palestine, the glorious land, bud did not become exceedingly great with his conquests. During his last campaign to conquer Persia, it is written: “About that time, as it happened, Antiochus had retreated in disorder from the region of Persia. He had entered the city called Persepolis and attempted to rob the temples and control the city. Therefore, the people rushed to the rescue with arms, and Antiochus and his army were defeated, with the result that Antiochus was put to flight by the inhabitants and beat a shameful retreat.” https://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/tx/2macc.htm/ - under the title, The Last Campaign of Antiochus Epiphanes.
Dan 8:13 asks: “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgress of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” The answer was: “… Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed” (Dan 8:14).
“In 168 B.C.E. or 169 B.C.E. Antiochus marched to Jerusalem, slew Jason (last of the Zadokite High Priests) and dedicated the Temple to Zeus, erecting an image of Zeus in his own likeness on the altar, and, according to some sources, sacrificed a pig in the Temple. This is known to Jews as the 'great desecration' or 'abomination of desecration' (from Daniel 11: 31 & 12: 11).” https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes/
Antiochus IV Epiphanes conquered Jerusalem in 168 BC, did not desolate, but desecrated it, and the Maccabees won a significant victory against him regaining Jerusalem and cleansed the Temple in 164 BC, the same year Antiochus IV Epiphanes died! That is a period of four years, a total of 1440 days, not 2,300, though we know the 2,300 is based on day for a year (360 days) principle (cf. Num 14:34; Eze 4:6).
The little horn fought against the “prince of the host,” the “Prince of princes,” and died, not by natural causes, but by the spiritual hands of Christ (Dan 8:25). In II Maccabees IX: 4-10, we read: “… But the all-seeing Lord, the God of Israel, struck him with an incurable and unseen complaint. The words were hardly out of his mouth when he was seized with an incurable pain in his bowels and with excruciating internal torture; and this was only right, since he had inflicted many barbaric tortures on the bowls of others… In that the very eyes of this godless man teemed with worms and his flesh rotted away while he lingered on in agonizing pain, and the stench of his decay sickened the whole army…. No one could bring himself to act as his bearer, for the stench was unbearable.”
Dan 8 is a continuation of Dan 7; it is the same narrative. Pagan Rome is the “little horn” with little power in the beginning. Papal Rome is the “little horn” now having waxed “exceeding great,” or greatest power, and diverse from all the previous empires: Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece (Dan 7:7)! The vision was one, a progressive one. The Roman Empire was historically recognized as one of the greatest empires and most influential civilization in the world up until the 14th C! https://rome.com/general/history/
Despite the evidence given in Scripture and ancient historical records, commentary after commentary say the little horn was Antiochus IV Epiphanes! The Seleucid Empire ended in 63 BC and the fourth beast, the Roman Empire was now in power lasting over 1000 years! Under Papal Rome, Christ was crucified, the saints were persecuted, scattered, and murdered and this continued even later into the 16th C with the Protestant Revolution (cf. Dan 7:21,22). Papal Rome will be defeated by the “Ancient of days,” the “Prince of princes” (Dan 7:9,13,14,22; Dan 8:25); While the Ancient of days refers to God, God gave all judgments to his son for it is Christ, the Prince, (John 5:22,27) who will return with his saints and “shall take the kingdom and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever” – the Millennium (Dan 7:18; Dan 2:40-45; cf. Zech 14:5-9; Rev 20:4-6). Jesus speaks of Daniel’s prophecy as having a still-future fulfillment (Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20,21) - 70 AD and his Second Coming. This vision would not happen for a very long time, “many days,” “at the time of the end” (Dan 7:25; Dan 8:17,26; Dan 12:9).
All the pieces of Scripture must fit, and if they don’t it is because we are using the wrong premise, in this case identifying Antiochus IV Epiphanes as the little horn. Pagan and Papal Rome are identified as the little horn and this may only be understood if it is built upon a correct interpretation and then the problem and strife cease. It is foundational in understanding this chapter. No other power qualifies, not in the past, nor will it in the future. Admittedly, Dan 8 and Dan 11 are controversial and much mis-understood, included me, but they don’t have to be, it doesn’t have to stay that way.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Valerie
“… the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven, And out of one of them came forth a little horn…”
The two horns represented the Medo-Persia Empire. Darius and Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC and were long dead when the one great horn of the Grecian Empire under the sole ruler, Alexander the Great, conquered the Persian Empire in 331 BC, 208 years later. After his death, civil unrests and wars ensued before the Grecian Empire was split into four horns, or kingdoms, by Alexander the Great’s four generals. These four horns are: Cassander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, and Ptolemy 1. These horns went into four directions, the four winds of heaven, that encompassed the Grecian Empire. North: Asia Minor under Lysimachus. It included Lydia, Ionia, Phrygia, and other parts of present-day Turkey; South: Egypt under the Ptolemaic Kings included its neighbouring regions; West: Macedonia, under the Cassandrian-Antigonid Kings, included most of Greece, and parts of Thrace; East: Syria under the Seleucid Kings, which later also comprised what is present-day Iran, Iraq, and parts of Central Asia. In time, the Syrian Seleucid Kingdom conquered one Kingdom, the Lysimachus Kingdom, and now ruled the North and East portions of the Greek Empire; the Antigonid Kingdom ruled the Western portion, and the Ptolemaic Kingdom ruled the Southern portion. These compass directions encompassed the Grecian Empire.
The Grecian Empire was conquered by the Roman Empire, the little horn of Dan 7 and Dan 8, which was diverse from all the other previous kingdoms and verified by ancient historical records. The Roman Empire did not rise out of the Northern Seleucid Kingdom of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, nor any other part of the Grecian Empire.
We are to understand that “out of one of them,” refers to “the four winds of heaven,” from which “came forth a little horn,” and it came from global West, or outside of the Grecian Empire. The Roman Empire in time split into the Western Roman Empire ruled by Rome, and the Eastern Roman Empire ruled by Constantinople in 285 AD by Diocletian. If we want to interpret that the little horn came from one of the horns within the Grecian Empire, we would have to conclude it came from the West, since it comprised Macedonia, or ancient Greece and not the North.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Valerie
8:17 This is the only time in the prophecy of Daniel that he is addressed as “son of man” |So Daniel stands for all the sons of men who seek to understand what God is going to do. Daniel received the vision and explanation and we can read and understand it.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
v.9 - the construction of the original here says that Simon made himself out to be a god. He arrogantly displaced God, and persuaded many to believe him. I wonder what he said to his former followers when he became a believer?
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
8:14 The apostles had already preached in Jerusalem and now preaching was taking place in Samaria.
The Apostles are following the injunction of Jesus Acts 1:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
8:1 Whilst the preaching of the gospel in Jerusalem was having great effect with many being added to the church daily there was a need for the message to go throughout the world. The persecution of Saul was the tool which caused the gospel to spread beyond Jerusalem. 'they were all scattered abroad'. So whilst the brethren might have thought the persecution of Saul was a real irritant it was the tool used by the Father to further the preaching of the gospel. God's ways are not our ways are they? But they are very effective.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:37 The response by Philip 'if thou believest with all thine heart' testifies powerfully to the importance of right belief and of a public confession.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
8:5 Stephen, one of the men appointed to 'serve tables' was the first martyr. Now another of the 7 who were appointed to serve tables goes away from Jerusalem preaching. Whilst Stephen'' death was not planned Philip's departure doubtless was. This might indicate that the dissension recorded in chapter 6 has now been resolved.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.15 We notice here that the apostles had to be present for the passing of the Holy Spirit. With God it would be possible for the Holy Spirit to be given at any time and in any place. But here God was going to use His servants for this work. Therefore they had to be on the spot. Philip could not pass on the Holy Spirit. That was another reason for Peter and John being sent for.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Beryl Butler [London West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Beryl
Vs.14-17 It is clear that after Pentecost and the occurrence of Peter's speech (Acts 10:44), the only way that the Holy Spirit could be transmitted was through the apostles. Therefore, when the apostles died out (in the first century), the Holy Spirit was not openly possessed any more by humankind.
Vs.35-38 Philip's episode with the Ethiopian eunuch clearly shows that salvation is based upon: belief in the gospel and full-immersion adult baptism.
V.37 Several manuscripts omit this verse.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
Vs.5-7 Philip performed many wonderful miracles of healing to the people of Samaria. But these miracles were not ends unto themselves. They were to show the power of Yahweh and underscore the message of the Gospel. Philip preached Christ and, through the miracles, riveted the people's attention on the Gospel message.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
8:14 It was John who was one of those who had asked Jesus whether they should call fire down on Samaria (Luke 9:54) and now he is going there to give the Holy Spirit – such was the change that took place in those men after the resurrection of Jesus.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
GROWTH
"On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria." (Acts 8:1)
Of the five to ten thousand believers that were in Jerusalem at the time the great persecution broke out, I suspect there were very few who really enjoyed being persecuted and taken out of that comfortable environment of community they had built up together. Their comfort zones were shattered. Everything they had known and placed their security in was taken away - except their faith in the word of God. Their personal lives, their social lives and spiritual lives were undergoing huge changes that, if it happened to us, we would call them uncomfortable, to say the least.
The positive aspect of this was that it caused spiritual growth. Listen to what happened. "Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went." (v. 4) Perhaps this preaching would not have been so intense if they had been able to sit comfortably among their friends in peace and security as before. But now through change and discomfort, these new Christians had to grow in faith and courage.
When we have times of change and discomfort, let's make sure they don't make us angry or bitter, but rather allow them to be times of growth to the glory of God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Robert
V.36 You can not preach Christ without baptism, but we note here that the request for baptism followed belief, and did not precede it. It is important that we keep these things in the correct order at all times.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
8:6 Despite – or maybe because of – the persecution the disciples were of ‘one accord’.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
V.12 The Gospel (Good News) consists of two parts: The kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. Both areas must be understood and believed before baptism can take place. Only then is the believer on the road to salvation. Understanding the Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, is necessary. That is evident from Philip's encounter with the eunuch (vs.30,35).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
8:30 Philip ‘heard’ the Ethiopian reading Isaiah. So we should ask ‘to whom was he reading?’ We might conclude that at least the chariot driver. However this man was of great importance in Ethiopia so it is probable that there were others travelling with him. So, if my presumption is correct, he was talking to others about Scripture even though he was not understanding it fully himself. We have to assume that those with him were also gentiles as he was. So we see a group of gentiles returning from Jerusalem reading Scripture at a time when the gospel had been extended to the gentiles.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
8:5 And so we see in the record the beginning of the taking of the gospel outside Jerusalem to Samaria, following the instructions of Jesus. Acts 1:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Vs.18,19 Simon’s act gave rise to the term simony which means: the act of buying and selling ecclesiastical offices and pardons.
V.26 Gaza was one of the five Philistine cities and not the Palestinian territory of today (1Sam 6:17).
Vs.31,32 The Ethiopian eunuch was reading from Isa 53:7,8.
Vs.39,40 Caught away Philip (KJV); carried Philip away (ESV) does not imply a miraculous whisking away of Philip to Azotus by the Spirit. It means that to Spirit advised him to leave for Azotus to preach.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
8:14 In sending Peter and John to investigate the effects of Philip’s preaching in Samaria we see an indication of the reluctance of the apostles to accept that the gospel was to be preached to others than Jews.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
THE ETHIOPIAN EUNUCH
Acts 8:32-33 - The Eunuch felt a kindred spirit with the person in this Isaiah passage, because although he was unable to "declare his generation" (having been cut off from having children) he would ultimately have a multitudinous seed.
The eunuch wanted to know the great hope of Isa 53:10, he wanted to be connected with the hope of Isa 54:1-3 "Sing , O barren, thou that didst not bear "
A great seed would be developed from Zion and the eunuchs would be blessed in God's house
Isa 56:3-5 - "... neither let the eunuch say , Behold, I am a dry tree. For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs ... I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off ."
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF GOD FOREVER!
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
8:18-19 We saw the dishonesty of Ananias and Sapphira, we now see the wanton greed of Simon. Thus we see that a knowledge of the gospel does not actually prevent avarice. Rather it highlights it and the believer, therefore, has to resist the temptation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
Acts 8:33 This reading by the Ethiopian of Isa 53:8 includes the question who shall declare his generation? The answer to this queston is provided by the prophetic words of the Psalmist (Psa 22:22). "I (Jesus) will declare thy name (his father's name) to his brethren in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee." Jesus knew that his resurrection was promised by his Father and that he would be united with the saints in the Kingdom of God. Jesus also knew from the words of Isaiah that his resurrection was promised, Isaiah 53:11. He will see the results of his sacrificial work and be satisfied. Also, see Heb 2:12, Jesus will be united with the ecclesia or congregation of the saints and praise God in the Kingdom.
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
8:27 The gospel was taken by Philip to Samaria. Now it is taken, through the Ethiopian who would return home, to the uttermost parts of the earth – Acts 1:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
In this section of the Old Testament Scriptures that the eunuch was reading - Isa 53:7,8 - there is the question being asked in connection with the Messiah - "Who can speak of his descendants?" In Philip's explanation of the meaning of this passage, what might he have said about this specific part of it in relation to Jesus?
The most immediate point of this prophecy is likely this - this man would be cut off in the prime of life never having had any literal offspring. Note the last phrase of v. 33 - "For his life was taken from the earth." But when reading on in the prophecy - as surely happened with the eunuch - he would have gotten to v. 10 in Isa. 53 which reads, "yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand." So, God says, he really will not be childless on a spiritual front, for he will have many spiritual children. And therefore the great fulfillment of the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that there would be so many descendants from this seed of Abraham as to be comparable to the stars of heaven, the dust of the earth, and the sand of the seashore.
The seed who will belong to Jesus will be those who are justified by him (Isa 53:11) - elsewhere stated to be due to one's faith in him - and he will bear their iniquities (v. 11) and make intercession for them (Isa 53:12).
So contained within this one passage is the beautiful concept found throughout the New Testament that Jesus is the creator of a new creation in him (see e.g. Eph 2:10; 2Cor 5:17; etc.), i.e. the "father" of many children {see Heb. 2:13 - "Here am I (Jesus), and the children God has given me."}
It's interesting to speculate as to how much of this part of Isaiah the eunuch had in his possession. For if his scroll contained Isa. 56, he would have been able to read these gracious words about foreigners and eunuchs -
"Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, 'The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.' And let not any eunuch complain, 'I am only a dry tree.' For this is what the LORD says: 'To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant - to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.'"
I can imagine Philip encouraging this soon-to-be baptized into Christ eunuch with these words as they are riding along. For if he returned to Ethiopia to pass along this message to others and they responded, he too would be a "father" to them in bringing them into Christ and giving them life - much as Paul considered himself a "father" to Timothy and Titus (1Cor 4:15-17; 1Tim 1:2; Titus 1:4) and the Thessalonian ecclesia (1Thess 2:11,12) and the Corinthian ecclesia (1Cor 4:14,15).
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Wes
8:24 Whilst there is no indication that Peter did, in fact, pray for Simon maybe we see a hint of repentance in Simon’s words. If he had repented doubtless he would have been forgiven.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
8:39 When we read that Philip was “caught away” we should realise that the word is used in the New Testament often to simply talk of being moved or taken – John 6:15 “take” Jude 1:23 “pulling”.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
How much will Jesus forgive?
"And Saul was consenting unto his death." Acts 8:1
Jesus converted Saul and accepted him as his disciple even though Saul had stood by to let others kill his beloved disciple. In Rom 1:32 we find that the same Greek word is used, and this time we learn that those who consent to an evil act are to be judged in the same way as those perpetrating the act. In other words, Saul (renamed Paul later) was guilty of Stephen's blood. Isn't it wonderful to see the level of forgiveness Jesus is willing to demonstrate, in forgiving Saul who persecuted both him and his loved ones? We should gain comfort from this when we ourselves feel guilty and beyond forgiveness. We are never beyond forgiveness if we seek God humbly through Jesus our mediator, and confess our sins honestly and with a contrite heart.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Rob
8:20 The way in which Peter told Simon that he could not buy God’s gifts with money is a wonderful comfort. The gospel is available to all without price –Isa 55:1.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
8:37 When Philip speaks of believing “with all thine heart” he is quoting God’s requirement of Israel –Deut 6:4 – when God required total commitment of Israel.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
8:8 In speaking of “great joy in the city” – of Jerusalem – we appreciate that when the principles of the gospel are seen working in men’s lives the benefit is experienced by others. It will be like this in the kingdom. Men will see the effect of righteousness and rejoice.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
8:1 When we learn that Saul was “consenting” to the death of Stephen we realise that he was part of a larger group who agreed together. Proverbs 6:18 could well come to mind here as does the injunction – Exo 23:2.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
“THE Name of Jesus Christ comprehends all that is affirmable of him; and is, therefore, the summary of his character as a prophet, sacrifice, priest, and king. Hence, to understand his Name we must know what is testified of him in the Law, the Prophets, the Psalms, and the Apostles.
From the Old Testament we may become acquainted with the Shiloh’s Name. This is absolutely necessary, for unless we understand what sort of a person Christ was to be, how can we, when we learn the Name of Jesus as described by the apostles, be able to say that the Name of Jesus as set forth in the prophets, and the Name of Jesus, are the Name of one and the same person?
But by comparing the apostolic history with the testimony of prophecy, we can intelligently confess that—‘Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ the Son of the living God.’”
Brother John Thomas
Indeed, the whole Bible is a single, unified and coherent text. The first five books of the Bible, called the Torah, are the foundational texts for understanding Yahweh’s revelation of Himself throughout Scripture (cf. John 17:3).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
8:1 in speaking of the believers being “scattered abroad” we are reminded of the way the “seed” was spread.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
8:32-33 The Ethiopian had been to Jerusalem and, possibly, had bought for himself a copy of the prophecy of Isaiah. He is now reading it and for some reason is reading Isa 53:7-8 when Philip joins him. Consider the way that God is working so that the Ethiopian might hear the gospel. He is disposed to the gospel message, is reading a prophecy which is so specifically talking about Jesus and Philip is there to explain it to him.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
8:1 “consenting <4909> carries the sense of pleasure – 1Cor 7:12 – indicating that from Paul’s perspective he was more than the executioner. Whereas the executioner is just doing his job Paul enjoyed what he was doing.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
8:1 the inspired record says Saul was “consenting” to the death of Stephen. He uses the same word himself later –Acts 22:20 – when speaking of what had had done in the past.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
8:1 the word “consenting” <4909> carries the sense of enjoyment or pleasure – Rom 1:31 where it is translated “pleasure”. So Saul’s reaction was not simply of agreement – it could even be construed that he took pleasure in the death of Stephen!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
8:19 Whilst Daniel was being shown strange and wonderful things he did not appreciate their significance. This caused him to think about what he was being shown. At times it saddened him but he persisted only to be told some times that he would not understand what he was seeing.
How do we view the future and the things we have been told about it in the scriptures?
Do we ponder and reflect on what we rad? Are we willing to change our minds as we possibly see events unfold differently from what we expect?
Or do we simply rely on the work of others.
The value of reading scripture for ourselves is that we learn valuable lessons about how faithful believers behave in circumstances that the do not fully understand.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
8:5 “Preached Christ” might seem to be a vague way of speaking about the gospel message. However it is a highly specific way of describing what was spoken about. “Christ” is a title and speaks of the Jewish Messiah. So Philip was very specifically highlighting that Jesus of Nazareth who had been crucified and raised form the dead is the Jewish Messiah.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter