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v.14 - This has to be one of the most important lessons for us to learn. Every decision we make, however trivial, needs to be made prayerfully, with our minds open to the answer that God gives, wherever that answer may appear, whether it is in our reading of His word (where we will certainly not find the answer unless we open it), or in the arrangement of the circumstances of our lives. It is important that we ensure that God's will is done in our lives and that he has the glory for the things that feel like our own successful decisions. Ex.28:30, Num.27:21, Jas.1:5.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.3 The behaviour of the Gibeonites stands as a warning to us about our responses to the overtures that the world makes towards us. Israel had been told to utterly destroy those nations that were in the land [Deuteronomy 7:2]. Joshua was beguiled by the smooth words of the Gibeonites and so did not verify how he should respond by seeking counsel of God. Likewise we can accept the things that the world says to us in an uncritical way, without applying the Word of God to the situation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.21,27 - These folk became servants - they had used deception to save their own skins, but now found themselves in a position of servitude. It is interesting that the princes did not seek to be freed from their oath, but carried it through, knowing that even though they had done it without consultation, an oath is an oath made before God and must be kept.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
Even though the Gibeonites had deceived the Israelites we will remember that on a later occasion Israel held to their promise by delivering them from their enemies (Joshua 10). Israel had sworn to their hurt and did not change (Psalm 15:4)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:24 Notice that the Gibeonites were not afraid of the military might of Israel. Their fear was a consequence of their realisation that Yahweh was fighting for them. Thus they were men of faith' They had faith in the power of the God of Israel. They believed that He would keep His word.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
9:14 Maybe, flushed with success, Israel felt no need to speak with God about the Gibeonites.
In like manner it is so easy for us to forget God when things appear to be going well for us.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.7 The answer of the Israelites implied that they had no discretion, that the orders were imperative, and that the if the strangers belonged to any of the native tribes, the idea of an alliance with them was unlawful since God had forbidden it. Exo 23:32, Exo 34:12, Deut 7:2
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
The lesson for us in the story of the Gibeonites is in Josh 9:14, Israel "asked not counsel at the mouth of the Lord." It was a plausible request, with apparent support from the men's old clothes and mouldy bread, but it was a lie. God saw through the deception, but apparently nobody asked Him.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
The people of Gibeon were Hivites. This is one of the nations that Moses commanded should be utterly destroyed (Deut 20:16,17). Israel was subsequently promised that Yahweh would help them in this task (Josh 3:10).
However, Yahweh does not act in isolation but in partnership with His people. Israel had forgotten this fact by not consulting Yahweh before accepting the Gibeonites. Yahweh did not intervene but let the Israelites be duped. They had failed the test with which Yahweh had presented them.
The lesson for us is always to consult Yahweh before acting so that He may guide us to do right (Prov 3:5,6).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
V.2 Although divided by separate interests and often at war with each other, a sense of common danger prompted nations to suspend their mutual animosities, that by their united forces they might prevent the land from falling into the hands of foreign masters. Nothing can stop the plan of God
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
9:18 Israel had sworn and would not go back on their oath, even though it would have been simple to do so. They had implemented the principles which David later enunciated Psa 15:4
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
As Michael Parry mentioned, the people of Gibeon were among those to be utterly destroyed, but they benefited from a deception and weren't the first recorded in the Bible to do so. Could the Gibeonites be a symbolic echo of no hope offered under the Law but hope offered to sinners under the New Covenant of Christ? Josh 9:3,4,5,6,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,22,23,24,25,26 - v3-5 - we have the Gibeonites resorting to a ruse to save their lives and we read the old wine skins (Matt 9:16-17) and mouldy bread perhaps suggesting sacrifice under the Law which didn't save (or could it be an echo of the last supper and the beginning of the New Covenant?); v6 - the Gibeonites want to make a treaty (could this be a new law or New Covenant?); v14-15 - Israel didn't enquire of God just as the later Scribes and Pharisees didn't observe God's commands but a treaty of sorts was made in both cases; v16-17 - we have mentions of three days and on the third day (echoes of in the pit three days and resurrection of Christ on the third day?); v18 - they are spared though the whole assembly grumbled (an assembly shouted for Christ to be killed but in doing so actually participated in saving him and others from a future of certain death); v21 - we have the mention of wood and water (echoes of the water of baptism/burial with Christ carrying the burden of our sins and wood cut to make the cross?); v23 - lived to always serve for the house of God; v24 - they realized they had no hope of living under the existing arrangement; v25 - the Gibeonites ask for mercy; v26 - Joshua/Jesus saved them; v27 and they served at a place the Lord would choose (echoes of becoming baptised and taking up their cross and following Christ?). Josh 11:19 notes all their neighbours destroyed but they were the only ones to sign a life saving treaty and perhaps this is another echoed indication of hope offered to the Gentiles and what would be the wages of sin. Later in 2Sam 21:1-3 we find Saul was punished for a period of 3 successive years (the duration of Christ's ministry) for putting the Gibeonites to death but David sought to make amends as they were to be protected.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Charles
9:23 Even though Israel kept the oath that they had made towards the men of Gibeon the Gibeonites did not escape without any consequences. In being made bondmen constraints were placed upon them. Actions have consequences.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
9:1 We see another occasion when there are many ‘kings’ in the land but they are now united against Gibeon.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Israel was duped by the Gibeonites. Nevertheless, Israel spared their lives and the Gibeonites became part of the fabric of Israel. The Gibeonites were Hivites, which was a branch of the Hittites (vs.3,7). The Hittites later conquered Egypt and set up their capital in Zoan in the land of Goshen where they held power for 500 years. The Hittites were ruled by shepherd kings called the Hyksos.
Through Yahweh's guidance, Joseph became the second-in-command in Egypt during the rule of the Hyksos and subsequently brought the Israelites down to dwell in Goshen. They were treated kindly by their hosts and Israel prospered. Thus, Israel was preserved from famine.
Yahweh orchestrates all matters, of course, and I wonder if the saving of the Gibeonites, by Israel, was recognized by their relatives the Hyksos and a reciprocation of kindness was made.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
9:7 In telling us that the men of Gibeah were ‘Hivites’ we are reminded that Israel should have utterly destroyed them Deut 20:17
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.3 Gibeon was a greater city than Ai (Josh 10:2). It was situated about 10 km (6 mi) northwest of Jerusalem and about 11.6 km (7 mi) southwest of Ai. Gibeon was located in the territory of Benjamin (Josh 18:25). It was also designated one of the Levite cities (Josh 21:17).
V.15 Joshua made peace with Gibeonites and swore to let them live. Then he discovered that the Gibeonites had deceived him. Nevertheless, he could not go back on his oath. And so, the city of Gibeon was spared plus three other Hivites cities (v.17).
The Gibeonites were given jobs as labourers around the camp (v.21). Thus, they became the original Nethinims.
The name Nethinim comes from Nathan which means give, set apart, dedicate. The Nethinims were temple servants in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah (1Chron 9:2). The Gibeonites were the first Nethinims, but later other conquered people were added to the group. David appointed some to become Nethinims (Ezra 8:20).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
Is Jesus thinking of the Gibeonites when he speaks of counting the cost before going to war (Luke 14:31-32)?
Also, have you noticed that their words in v9-10, v24 are virtually the same as Rahab's? (2:9-11)
In which case, is it possible that the lost sheep, coin, and son in Luke 15 relate to the believing Gentiles who would inherit the promises before Israel?
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Rob
9:3 So the fame of Israel was beginning to spread through the city states in the land of Canaan.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
9:7 It was very naive to presumed that the men of Gibeon would tell Israel the truth about the origins. The ‘world’ had its own agenda. Israel should have enquired of God. Likewise we should not be taken in by everything we hear. We should measure what we hear from the ‘world’ against the Word of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
9:4-6 Things are not what they seem, often. We can be easily deceived into thinking things are different from reality. It is all too easy to take the easiest course of actions rather than to review the situation in the light of Scripture. This was Israel’s failure here, They did not ask counsel of God. They suffered the consequences for many years to come.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
DECEPTION
The thing about deception is that is sets out to deceive us. Its very nature tells us that we are unlikely to be prepared for it. The Gibeonites deceived Israel with their worn out clothes, mouldy bread and imaginative tale of a long and tiring journey. Israel were not expecting people to come and make peace with them. They didn't imagine anyone would try to make peace with them in this way. But as they were not expecting deception, they took no precautions and fell into the trap.
We probably don't have Gibeonites wandering up to us in old clothes pretending to be people they were not, but we can easily be deceived in other ways. "This will only take a moment," may be one of the ways we can easily be deceived into wasting vast amounts of time that may well have been used in much better ways. We can be deceived into lowering our standards or breaking the law because "everyone is doing it." Lately we have seen the deception that the financial markets have lured many of us into. And another common deception is to think that things will be easier or better tomorrow. These deceptions will catch us off guard if we are not prepared.
So let's be absolutely familiar with God's truth and be regular in prayer so we can recognise deception when it comes, and not be taken in by it.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Robert
We might think that the Gibeonites were just doing what would be logical to save themselves here. However there is a contrast in the "mixed multitude" Exo 12:38, who went out of Egypt with Israel. They chose to join themselves to the Israelites under their banner, obviously falling on the mercy of Yahweh and accepting whatever would befall them after leaving Eqypt. It is obvious from Neh 13:3 that they remained a homogenious group. This presupposes that there would have been a better way for the Gibeonites to enter into an agreement with Israel honestly. Aside from this, this incident shows us the honourable nature of Israel in dealing with oaths, when there wuld have been a genuine reason not to honour it.
Ross Melles [Waitakere, Auckland (NZ)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Ross
9:24-26 So the men of Gibeon threw themselves on the mercy of Israel. No argument, no special pleading. Knowing that God was on Israel’s side they were happy – or had no choice – to leave their fate in the hands of the people of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
The model of faith
In Josh 9:1-2 we see that all the nations in this area recognised the threat Israel posed, and formed a confederacy to try to defeat them. No doubt they asked (and expected) Gibeon to join with them, which is why they were so angry with them when they didn't (10:1-5). This sets the scene for the Gibeonite story, because we find in the next verses that, rather than join with their brethren and neighbours to fight the invader, they responded in the opposite way, seeking refuge with the enemy.
Seeking refuge with the enemy, against the peer pressure of your family, friends and neighbours, is nearly impossible to do. For a start it's scary to approach an enemy and ask for mercy. Secondly, it hurts ones pride. Thirdly, it will mean lower status, becoming servants when once we were masters. Fourthly, it will bring the antagonism (or wrath, as was the case here) of our peers, who expect us to act in the way they do. How did the Gibeonites manage to overcome such great odds? It was by a substance that they had acquired - faith. By faith the Gibeonites set more store by the might of the LORD God of Israel, than by the might of their neighbours. They correctly weighed up the history of Israel they had heard, and came to the conclusion that God was to be feared above anything man could do. This building of their faith can be seen in v9-10, v24 and v3, as the report of the mighty acts of God for Israel came increasingly near their own door.
This is the same for us. By faith we hear reports, but do not see directly what God has reported to us. Our faith is in the testimony of eyewitnesses in the Bible, just as theirs was in the word of eyewitnesses, which tells us that the judgement is coming increasingly near to us. Like the Gibeonites we can choose to capitulate and seek refuge with our judge (v24), or like the nations we can see the same signs, but choose instead to set ourselves against God (v2). Jesus will treat us just as Joshua did, so let's look at the process:
1) Confession of faith in coming judgement (v24)
2) Confession of humility in face of power greater than ours (v24)
3) Giving up, and confession of trust in his mercy (v25)
4) Deliverance (v26)
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Rob
9:14-15 Whilst God knew exactly what was going on He did not intervene to make the matter clear to Joshua. Rather He left Joshua to deal with the issue. Joshua was being tested. In like manner God does not save us from our own folly.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
9:27 So, having made a promise to the Gibeonites, Joshua had to treat the people like those from a city far off as we see in Deut 20:11
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
9:19 At least having made a promise and despite the murmuring of the congregation the promise was kept. It is all too easy to, having made a decision, to be swayed by the voices of others. Either a matter is true or not and the correctness of a decision is not determined by a majority vote. It is decided on the facts of the case.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
“And it came to pass, when all the kings, which were on this side Jordan, in the hills and in the valleys, and in all the coasts of the great sea over against Lebanon, the Hittite…”
The Hittites were descendants of Heth, the son of Canaan, the son of Ham, the son of Noah (Gen 10:1-6,15). The Hittites occupied the region of Anatolia, also known as Asia Minor, which is modern-day Turkey.
Up until 104 years ago, there was no archaeological evidence that they even existed and skeptics were quick to debunk the Bible as being historically inaccurate. However, in 1912, Hugo Winckler, a German Archaeologist uncovered a huge library with 10,000 clay tablets from the Hittite royal archives, which completely documented the lost Hittite Empire. At its height, the Hittite Empire rivaled Egypt and Assyria in its glory and power.
The Hittites ruled the area of Syria and eastern Turkey and battled with Egypt and Babylon for territory. Babylonian and Assyrian records refer to Syria and Palestine as “Hatti-land.” Josh 1:4 includes their territory as a great part of the Promised Land for Israel. Abraham bought the burial cave for Sarah from them (Gen 23). Esau took wives from among the Hittites (Gen 26:34). Uriah the Hittite was one of David’s mighty men (2Sam 11:3). The Hittites are mentioned years after the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity (Ezra 9:1). It is believed they were eventually absorbed into the surrounding cultures and lost their identity.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Valerie
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
9:8 the way I which the Gibeonites spoke to Joshua would imply that they knew exactly what God had said to Israel about how to deal with the nations that were not near to them – Deut 20:11.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
9:12-13 The Gibeonites appealed to the condition of their food and clothing rather than simply letting Israel see them. It is as if they wanted to draw attention to their condition. One might have thought that if they were “true men” they would have simply let their condition demonstrate the truth of their claims. We often seek to justify ourselves rather than simply allowing the evidence to settle a matter.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
9:1 In speaking of the land as one of Hills and valleys Joshua is reminding the nation what Moses had said before the people crossed Jordan – Deut 11:11.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
9:2 Having met at Mount Ebal quite a distance north it is not surprising that the kings in Canaan joined together. They must have witnessed an amazing even when the blessings and cursing were recited. Maybe the king sin Canaan feared that there was going to be some sort of place of worship set up there – an indication that Israel were seeking a greater foothold in the land
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
9:9. From a very distant country your servants have come
How did the Gibeonites know that their ruse ("We have come from a very far country") would work? They possibly had spies check what was written by the Jews at Ebal where engraved on the rocks was the law of Moses (8:30). They would understand from these engravings that Deuteronomy 20 allows peoples from far off cities to make peace with Israel (Deut 20:10,11,15) but that local peoples were to be destroyed (Deut 20: 16-18). Thus, masquerading as people from a "very far" country rather than as locals would have been an effective ruse - they made sure that they used the term "far" country which is the wording of Deut 20: 15. Joshua did not check the matter (9:14) and the Gibeonites won.
Bruce Bates [Forbes Australia] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Bruce
9:2-3 Whilst Israel did not ask God about the men who came from Gibeon we have to consider the reaction of a large number of kings on the one hand and one city on the other.
The nations listed in verse 1 decided the only option was to join together and fight. The men of Gibeon, on the other hand, realised that fighting would be of little value. So they used subterfuge to make an alliance.
We must presume that they anticipated that Israel would keep their side of the bargain that would be struck.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
9:9-10 It is easy not to notice what is not said. But notice, the men of Gibeon would have been well aware of the defeat of Jericho and Ai. However the earlier victories of Israel are mentioned instead as that would be consistent with them coming from “a far country” – they had it all worked out!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
9:18 Then all the congregation murmured against the leaders
This is the first time that we hear of murmuring against the leaders in the promised land. Murmuring leads to faithlessness. But, to their credit, the leaders held firm in their resolve to do the right thing and not kill the Gibeonites, having taken an oath to preserve them.
That is leadership - doing the right thing by God when there is pressure to conform to the urgings of the people. Leadership is not a popularity contest.
Bruce Bates [Forbes Australia] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Bruce
v. 2 - The word 'banner' (05251) is a popular word in this prophecy, more than half of its scripture usage being in Isaiah, 5:26, 11:10,12, 18:3, 30:17, 31:9[ensign], here [banner], 33:23 [sail], 49:22, 62:10[standard].
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v. 5-16 Even before the Babylonians have become a power to be reckoned with - whilst the Assyrians are still in the ascendancy - Isaiah prophesies of the Medo Persians [Isaiah 13:17] overthrowing the Babylonians.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v. 3 - The mighty acts of God are emphasised several times in the prophecy, in various statements, for example 23:11, 44:27,28, 45:4,5
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
13:5 'a far country' is echoed (2 Kings 20:14) in the discussion between Hezekiah and Isaiah.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:19-20 That Babylon would never be inhabited is picked up by Jeremiah - to show that Isaiah's words are being fulfilled (Jeremiah 50:39 etc)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
V.20 This area was once fertile, but owing to the Euphrates, being no longer kept within its former channels, it has become a stagnant marsh, unfit for flocks. In the wastes of its ruins (bricks and cement) grass will not grow. Not only will it not be inhabited, but it can not be used for grazing.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
The prophecies of Babylon and the Medo-Persians way in advance give testimony to the foresight and planning of Yahweh. Nebuchadnezzar would be informed that: the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will (Dan. 4;25).
He would be called the servant of Yahweh and used to bring punishment on Judah (Jer 25:9). But, he would be deposed for his arrogance (v.11) by other servants of Yahweh, the Medes (v.17).
Yahweh called the Medes His sanctified ones (sanctified = appointed), and His mighty ones (warriors) (v.3).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
Now comes two chapters about the great enemy of Israel, Babylon. Then a message against Moab, Isa 15,16; then against Syria, Ethiopia, Egypt, Tyre etc. In fact, God has given a wonderful and dramatic picture of the Kingdom (Isa 11,12), all of-course in the future, and then prophecies against the current enemies of Israel. It was a very cheering word for the Godly remnant of Israel.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
13:6 Whilst Isaiah is speaking of the Babylonian invasion he is careful to make the point, by inspiration, that it is ‘a destruction from the Almighty’. Israel, and we, need to appreciate that things which appear so natural can be due to the direct involvement of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
13:5 This description of Babylonian activity against Israel should have been sufficient reason for Hezekiah not to show the ambassadors from Babylon all his wealth – 2Kin 20:12-13
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
13:1 We should remember that this ‘burden of Babylon’ – words of judgement against it – were written by Isaiah before the Assyrians had come against Jerusalem in the days of Hezekiah.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
The Babylonians were cruel conquerors in their time. Now the tables would be turned and they would become the victims of the same cruelty, perpetrated by the Medes. Violence begets violence. Jesus said that this would occur (Matt 26:52).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
13:16 The language of the judgement of Babylon is echoed in Zech 14:2 to speak of how God will punish Jerusalem thus indicating that at the time of the return of Jesus Israel will be as Godless as the Babylonians.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.16 This verse is echoed in Psa 137:8,9.
V.17 often one can buy his/her way to freedom and safety in wartime situations. However, the Medes would not be persuaded in this manner.
Vs.20-22 Today, Babylon is just a desolate mound in Iraq. Superstitious nomadic Arabs will not pitch their tents in that area. They believe that evil spirits reside there.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Charles
13:8 This is the first of three times that Isaiah speaks of the pains of a woman in travail (13:8, 21:3, 26:17)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
13:9 When speaking of ‘the day of the Lord’ Isaiah is speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Chaldeans. This should alert us to a realisation that ‘the day of the Lord’ is not always the time when Jesus is to return. We should always consider the context before appealing to a passage to support out views.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
13:10 The overthrow of Babylon was not accompanied by the extinguishing of the stars in heaven. So clearly the prophet is speaking of the end of the ruling powers in Babylon.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
13:9 We should remember that when Isaiah spoke these words Assyria was the dominant world power and Babylon had not even come onto the scene.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
13:3 The mighty acts of God are emphasised several times in the prophecy, in various statements, for example 23:11, 44:27,28, 45:4,5
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
BETTER THAN OTHERS
Some of the reasons God was going to punish Babylon were these: "I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless." (Isa 13:11).
The key words here are arrogance, haughty, pride and ruthless. They were the reasons God destroyed Babylon. The people of Babylon were those who thought they knew best, and would not listen to God and change their ways. They looked down their noses at other people, believing that they were better than everyone else. They were proud and had lifted themselves up in their own eyes, believing they could do no wrong. And they were ruthless, not caring for the weak, needy or anyone who stood in their way.
We don't always notice when the sins of arrogance, haughtiness, pride or ruthlessness attack us, because they come so gradually. If we want to avoid them, we can purposefully live lives that don't give room for those sins to develop. We can depend on God instead of on ourselves in arrogance. We can view others as children of God, and worthy of honour. We can realise our own sin and unworthiness in the sight of God, and fall on His grace instead of being proud. And we can show care and love to the poor, weak and those less advantaged than we are.
In these, we will please God, and avoid the judgements God has planned for the wicked.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Robert
It seems likely that this prophecy is about the Median uprising against Assyria which at the time also ruled over Babylon. In fact, at the time of writing Media was also under Assyrian rule as can be see in 2Kin 18:11.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Rob
13:17 The Medes’ attack and overthrow of Babylon took place about 200 years after Isaiah spoke these words.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
1. from Isaiah chapt 13 to 23 we have 10 burdens/oracles on 10 nations arround Israel; 10 is thought by some to represent perfection of divine order or judgment.
2. Isa 13:1 - the vision of Isaiah regarding "the burden"<4853> concerning "Babylon"<894> which seems to be human confusion to the divine purpose and could represent a literal Babylon/Iraq and perhaps a symbolic Babylon (Rome? Rev 14:1-5,8;Rev 17:1-9;Rev 18:2;1Cor 14:33).
3. Isa 13:2 - "Lift ye 'a banner'(<5251> same Hebrew word as used for "ensign" in Isa 11:10) upon the 'high mountain'(does this mountain refer figuratively to the mighty political power of Babylon Jer 51:24-29 or might this refer to God's holy mountain Isa 10:32;Isa 2:3 ?); perhaps this is a rallying call to the enemies of Babylon.
4. Isa 13:3,17 - Cyrus was God's anointed one (Isa 45:1) and thus the Medo-Persians were set apart (or sanctified) to execute God's judgments on Babylon which would become a mighty power but at the time of writing served the Assyrian monarchy; V.3 could this also echo the saints going against a latter day "Babylon" of apostasy and doctrinal confusion?
5. Isa 13:4-5 - far off nations moving together to destroy the "whole land"<776>.
6. Isa 13:6 - "the day of the Lord" (Dan 4:17,25 shows the nations are servants in carrying out God's judgments apparently against Babylon in this case; could this day of the Lord also echo a future time second coming and day of the Lord against a future 'Babylon'?).
7. Isa 13:7-8 - "every man's heart shall melt...a woman that travaileth" - this also seems to echo the fear and pain of the last days (Luke 21:26-27;1Thess 5:3).
8. Isa 13:9 - the land made desolate and sinners destroyed.
9. Isa 13:10 - the Babylonian heavens will be darkened (Psa 137:1-5,8;Jer 29:10); the sun, moon, and stars not giving
their light also seems to echo the calamity of the last days and may have some connection to Israel along with other nations (Gen 37:5-10;Joel 2:31;Joel 3:15;Isa 24:21-23;Matt 24:29-30;Luke 21:25-27;Rev 6:12-17).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Charles
10. Isa 13:11 - the reason Babylon (both literal and symbolic) was and will be punished.
11. Isa 13:11-13 - God's judgments on the earth.
12. Isa 13:12 - men will become scarce.
13. Isa 13:13 - "shake the heavens and the earth" perhaps suggests the old order ended (Joel 3:16-21;Hag 2:6-9;Heb 12:24-28;Rev 6:12,14 last days application?).
14. Isa 13:14 - people will flee to their own homeland.
15. Isa 13:16 - "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces" (Psa 137:7-9;Hos 13:16); "their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravaged" (Zech 14:1-3 - does Isaiah 13:16 have any application to the last days?).
16. Isa 13:17-18 - is this just the Medo-Persian empire that overthrew Babylon? Is this also modern Iran vs Iraq? At the time of writing the Medes and Babylon were young nations with Assyria the dominant power.
17. Isa 13:17-22 - Cyrus in 539BC abandoned Babylon and Seleucus Nicator in the late 4th century BC abandoned Babylon; Babylon continued on for nearly 1000 years after Cyrus conquered it; Saddam Hussain tried to rebuild Babylon but was prevented from doing so.
18. Isa 13:19-22 - literal Babylon has been overthrown and is uninhabited but it hasn't quite been utterly destroyed to the extent of Sodom and Gommorrah yet (Luke 17:28-29).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Charles
13:1,28 Isaiah’s words and ideas – the judgment of Babylon by the Medes – are taken up many years later by the Prophet Jeremiah. Jer 51:1 “destroying wind” answers to the “burden” and the Medes as mentioned specifically – Jer 51:28
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
13:21-22 The way that Babylon is described is like the way in which the Babylon of Revelation is described – Rev 18:2
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
Chapters 13 & 14 together is one long warning about Babylon. As such it should have served as a warning to Hezekiah so that he should not have been hospitable to the ambassadors from Babylon that came to visit him after he had been sick 2Chron 32:31
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
13 and 14 The way in which Babylon would impact upon Judah is the focus of this prophecy. Judah were being warned about the problems that would come from the Chaldeans some time later than when the words were spoken. When the words were spoken Assyria, not Babylon was the thread. However heed should have been given to the word. It seems that Hezekiah, though being aware of Isaiah’s prophecy, ignored them. Hence he showed all his treasures to the ambassadors from Babylon when he recovered from his sickness and was reproved for that – 2Chron 32:31.
We know what scripture says but there are times when we do not heed its words. Hezekiah’s behaviour should serve as a warning to us.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
13:6-7 There was an inevitability about all of these things. Because the “day of the Lord” was coming it was inevitable – therefore – that the consequences would happen.
When God pronounces an event it will certainly occur. This should bring us great confidence.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
13:17 Maybe we are so familiar with the fact that God speaks of the future in great details that the force of that point might be diminished in our appreciation of Him.
He is the Creator. He knows everything – the end from the beginning. - and yet he is interested in you and I as individuals! So much so that he gave His son Jesus to deliver us from death!
Do we praise and thank the Creator enough for what he has done for us?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
4 v.5 - We have the concept of sanctification here. It is worth thinking about the ways in which we are encouraged to take steps to this end, even under the new covenant, in making our lives a sacrifice to God. Sanctification here is by the Word of God and prayer, so let us be sure not to neglect giving appropriate energy to both of these. Luke 4:4, 11:41, 1Cor.7:14, Tit.1:15.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
4 v.12 Both Timothy [1 Timothy 4:12] And Titus [Titus 2:15] Were exhorted to not allow others to despise them. They were both in authority through the appointment of the Apostle Paul, therefore their seeming youth or inappropriateness was not a valid basis for disregarding them. Thus they were to ensure that their position was not undermined by those who would prefer not to listen to them. As is often the case, when a person's argument cannot be gainsaid, the one opposing lowers himself to attacking the credentials of the person. This seems to have happened with both Timothy and Titus and had to be resisted if their work were to continue.
5 v.20 'Rebuke' is the correct way to deal with error. [Leviticus 19:17] However there is no point rebuking one who has no respect for the Word of God [Proverbs 9:8] We should heed the rebuke of 'the 'wise' [Ecclesiastes 7:5] This instruction from the Old Testament forms the basis for the warnings and exhortations in the New Testament. here 2 Timothy 4:2 Titus 1:13 2:15
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Chapter 4 5 and 6 emphasise 'doctrine' 4:6, 13, 16 5:17 6:1. But it is not a mere adherence to a set of beliefs that is being spoken of. It is a way of life.
4:1 Devils in the Old testament were false Gods - Psalm 106:37 so here Paul is, using an Old Testament image, contrasting true doctrine with the worshipping of false gods. In the context of Ephesus where Timothy was it could easily be Diana.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
ch.4 - EXERCISE
Sharon and I were out the other night, and as darkness was falling we were walking along the road opposite a gym. The lights were on in the gym and we could see all the people in there, many punching the air as they did aerobics, others on cycles, treadmills and other gym gear. They were all exercising - some to get fit, some to loose weight, some to get in shape and others, no doubt, to do all three!
We live in an age of fitness freaks.
We can learn important lessons from the people that go to gyms to get fit. They devote themselves to the task. They set goals. They make sacrifices of time and money to achieve their goals. They want to improve themselves. They expend energy in their efforts.
Paul says, "Train yourself to be godly. For physical exercise is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come." So when we exercise ourselves to godliness let us be as devoted, self sacrificing and motivated as those in the gym looking for physical fitness. Let us improve ourselves, set goals and expend ourselves in our quest for godliness. May God bless you in your exercise this week
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
4:3 That there were those who were 'forbidding to marry' may indicate a misunderstanding of Paul's counsel to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 7:8) - and if so an indication that the letters were seen by ecclesias other than the one to which they were sent.
5:18 'the labourer is worthy of his hire' quotes Jesus' words (Matthew 10:10) indicating that Matthew's gospel was available by the time that Paul wrote to Timothy.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
ch 4 - BE AN EXAMPLE
Timothy was young, yet despite his youth he had been sent by Paul to Ephesus to support and lead the church that was there. When a young person has leadership, especially when there are older people present, they often lack the respect and authority they need as a leader. Paul's solution to this was that Timothy earn the respect and authority by his way of life. He says, "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity. Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of scripture, to preaching and teaching. Do not neglect your gift ... Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch you life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do you will save both yourself and your hearers."
No matter what our age or our position we would all do well to follow Paul's good advice. Let us make sure that our lives are an example to all the believers who see us. Set an example for them, read the Scripture and make it a matter of principle in all you do an say. In doing this we will save both ourselves and those who hear us.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Robert
1Tim 4:9. We have here the third and final faithful saying that Paul uses in this letter, which are the keys to this first letter to Timothy.
1Tim 1:15. Dealing with first principles.
1Tim 3:1. (True saying) Dealing with works.
1Tim 4:9. Dealing with continual effort.
1Tim 5:5-10. When we go back to yesterday’s readings (Ch.3) we see strong similarities between bishops and those that are indeed widows. The Greek word anepileptos (423) is only used in this letter. Ch. 3 a bishop must be blameless and here that a widow likewise must be blameless. The other occasion is Paul telling Timothy in 6:14 that he must be “unrebukeable” or blameless. It is also an interesting comparison between the qualifications of a bishop (3:2-6) and that of the good reports of a widow(v.10). Both must have served the ecclesia.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
4:10 In telling Timothy that 'we both labour and suffer reproach' Paul is reminding him of what he had told the Corinthians (1Cor 4:12)
5:16 'relieve' catches the sentiments of Lev 25:35 where the law relating to the year of release and the year of jubilee are developed. That God would provide for Israel at that time should provide the servant of God with a reason to be willing to provide for his brother or sister now.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
4:1-3 Paul was anticipating the emergence of spiritual wolves (Acts 20:29,30). These Gnostics did rise in the first century but flourished particularly in the second century, causing severe divisions in the ecclesia.
4:10 The word especially here is not to be taken in the modern sense to mean prominently but not exclusively. It means particular or germane in linking salvation to be exclusively contingent upon belief.
5:20 Public rebuke is a scriptural command. When the sin impacts the community this is appropriate. The case of Paul's public rebuke of Peter illustrates this (Gal 2:14). This is not to be confused with the response to a sin against an individual (Matt 18:15-17). Ecclesias should not hesitate to rebuke publicly when warranted. To shy away from this responsibility under the guise of discretion or so-called avoiding offence is wrong.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
4:1 ‘seducing spirits’ catches the situation in Eden again – see 1Tim 2:14 for another example. Genesis and the events in Eden are key areas of Scripture when considering how we should live and equally importantly – why.
5:8 Whilst provision was made for those who were destitute both in the ecclesias – Acts 6:2-3 – and in Old Testament times Deut 15:7-8 he individual has the responsibility to care for himself rather than rely on the ecclesia.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
4:8 In comparing physical training and the development of a Christ like man. Paul is bringing forward important lessons that a young man would be able to relate to. 1) Just as a youth in the gymnasium exerts himself to the utmost, so one must spare no effort in the development of that Christ like man. 2) Just as one discards every handicap in order to train more freely, one must remove everything that could encumber one's spiritual development. 3) As when one is running a race, he remains focused on the finish line, so one must remain focused on what has been promised, if he serves his Heavenly Father to the best of his ability.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
DEVOTED TO BIBLE READING
One of the things that Paul told Timothy to do with the church he had been given to take care of, was this: "Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching." (1Tim 4:13)
The Bible is different to any other book we might read. It says of its self that it is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. While many other self help books or other motivational material may change our lives in some way, God's word does far more. It will live in us and change us from the inside out. People who regularly read their Bibles have their lives changed in ways that might not otherwise have happened. It brings us closer to God, helps us to build a relationship with him and with Jesus, changes our natures to become more like our Saviour, and prepares us for the kingdom of God. When we watch people come to know God it is easy to tell if they are regularly reading their Bibles because of the changes we see in their lives.
So we need to ask some questions. How devoted are we personally to reading God's word ourselves? How much is our church devoted to having the Bible read in public? And because reading the Scripture is one of the most important things we can ever do, how can we improve on the quality and quantity of Bible reading we do?
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Robert
5:5 The ‘widow indeed’ is a sister who has lost her husband and who has no other family to take care for her. In this case they were the responsibility of the church. On the other hand if they had family it was first the responsibility of the family to take care of them – 1Tim 5:16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
In 1Tim 4:12 Paul exhorts Timothy, and therefore us, that we should be an example of the believers. This is a great point for us to emulate. The AV says that we should be an example OF the believers, but some modern versions say TO the believers. Actually, both should be true.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to David
4:13 Teaching is one of the things that Timothy must attend to. One's life is founded on the things that he believes. As children we were taught right from wrong, that was one of many responsibilities that our parents under took. Timothy was given that same responsibility; to teach right from wrong, not just morals, but also doctrine.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
4:6 In telling Timothy to ‘put the brethren in remembrance’ we realise that they had once known the teachings that Paul wanted Timothy to teach them. From this we learn that it is possible for us to forget things we knew and as a consequence start to behave in ways which are inconsistent with life in Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
4:3 These erroneous beliefs can still be seen today in the apostasy. For example, the Catholic Church forbids its priests from marrying, even though their first pope (or so they claim) Peter was married (Matt 8:14). For the longest time, the Catholic Church forbade meat to be eaten on Fridays.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
4:2 This warning echoes what Paul had warned and reproved in Eph 4:19 when Paul wrote to the same people earlier.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
4:1 The term latter times means from the first century and onward. It does not specifically relate to our time which is more appropriately called the end times.
4:13 Attention to reading the Bible, exhortation, and correct doctrine are also necessary for the disciple of Jesus today.
5:1 Respect for elders has largely gone in today’s world. But, it should never be neglected by followers of Jesus.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
5:23 The Greek physicians considered that just drinking water alone could eventually ruin the stomach. And so, it was the custom of the Greeks to mix wine with their water (the ratios of wine to water varied from: 1:2; 1:3; 2:3). However, the Greeks considered that youths under thirty should not drink wine.
Timothy was undoubtedly brought up with this understanding, as his father was a Greek unbeliever. Timothy was about twenty when he was circumcised by Paul. And so, he was under the Greek prohibition against his drinking wine. At the time of this letter, Timothy was about thirty-five.
Paul is giving Timothy permission to mingle wine with his water. Timothy’s circumcision was expedient for reaching the Jewish audience. Now, Timothy’s mission was amongst the Greeks also. Thus, adjusting to their view of acceptable behaviour, Timothy could more easily reach the Greeks. This was apart from any possible health benefits.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
4:7 ‘Old wives tales’ are contrasted with ‘Godliness’. The tongue is seen in Scripture as a cause of great damage. Prov 15:2, 18:21, James 3:6
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith... speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron."
The word, "depart" comes from the Greek word, aphistemi, Strong's concordance # <868>, "... draw (fall) away."
The history of man, as recorded in the Bible, is one long, tragic chronicle of almost uninterrupted apostasy, or falling away from the Truth. This happens when people sear, or cauterize their consciences with a hot iron, which simply means they do not feel any guilt in promulgating wrong doctrines and practices; they have burnt their conscience to cinders!
The apostle Paul tells us how this happens. "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind..." (Rom 1:28).
The seared conscience is the ultimate result of this process. When we reach this point, it is no longer possible to be saved. Though God desires our salvation (2Pet 3:9), such no longer have the capacity to feel remorse and change, and are ultimately given over to being of a "a reprobate mind." In light of this, should we not be giving ourselves enough time daily in studying the Word diligently (2Tim 2:15)?
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
4:4-5 It was the Jew who, still thinking of the dietary laws given by God, who had a problem with what they could eat. This was compounded by the fact that gentiles had been used to eating meats offered to idols.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
4:8 Paul is not encouraging Timothy to a little exercise. Rather he is contrasting the short term benefits of exercise with the long term benefits of the ‘life to come’. Now this is not to say that exercise is to be eschewed. Rather it should be seen for what is benefits. It benefits the here and now, not our eternal future and this should help us to put it into its appropriate place in our lives.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
How is Paul's exhortation to young widows to marry to be reconciled with what he said to the ecclesia at Corinth - 1 Cor. 7:8?
"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am".
The immediate context here in 1 Tim. 5 has to do with the various kinds of widows and to what degree, if any, they were to be supported by the ecclesia. There were -
1. older widows who had family members who could and should support them
2. older widows without family members to support them with various qualities as described in 1Tim 5:9,10. There were to be part of the "widows indeed" (K.J.V.) who were worthy of ecclesial support.
3. younger widows - some of whom had been included in the group to be supported but had broken their pledge of staying single. These who were younger were the ones receiving Paul's exhortation to marry and have children and manage their homes - and thus not take advantage of the ecclesial welfare provisions which should've only gone to some of the older ones.
The context then of Paul's statements in 1 Cor. 7 is somewhat different. There is no mention there of those "widows indeed" but only general observations about marriage or no marriage to various kinds of brethren and sisters. Even in the next verse - 1 Cor. 7:9 - after he has stated that they should remain unmarried, he says that if they can't control themselves, then they should marry, for it's better to marry than to burn with passion. Hard and fast rules are few and far between in any number of points Paul is making in 1 Cor. 7. Instead he provides alternatives such as:
A - the best
B - not the best but good enough under certain conditions
C- not very good at all under most circumstances
D - simply not acceptable
On top of that is what he calls the "present crisis" (v. 26) and the "time being short" (v. 29) which throws a whole different factor into what he writes.
Simple answer then - the context of each exhortation seems to be different and therefore the variations in what he says.
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Wes
5:19 ‘two or three witnesses’ quotes Deut 25:4 showing that the principles of judgement under the law of Moses were still to operate under the regime of the gospel. We do well to implement such practices ourselves.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
5:1-3 The way in which we speak to, and think of, others has a major impact on the way others behave. What we have to say may well be right. However we should think carefully how we are going to say what need to be said. There is no benefit in alienating someone by our words when we are trying to help them.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
4:1 If what Paul aid about teachers of false doctrine was true in the days of Timothy it must be equally true for us today. Nor should we just look outside of our community for false teachers. The way that Paul spoke to the Ephesians – Acts 20:30 – where Timothy was should alert us to the certainty that there will be those amongst us who undermine the truth of the gospel with their words. It is important, therefore, that we always asses what we hear against scripture.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
5:21 When Paul writes about the “elect <1588> angles” we should not think of election in the sense we use the word to day. Rather it is ones who had been “chosen” – Matt 20:16.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
1Tim 4:2 PRIESTISM - Chrysostom, a Catholic writer, says, “Priests have received a power which God never chose to confer on angels, for God never said to them, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Earthly princes have a power of binding, of bodies only however; but this bond grasps the soul, and extends to heaven, so that whatever the priests do below, God legitimates above, confirming the sentence of his servants. But what less is this than that he hath conferred on them all celestial power; for whose soever sins, he said, ye remit, they are remitted, and whosesoever ye retain, they are retained. Can any authority be greater than this? All judgment was given to the Son by the Father, but here I see it all devolved by the Son on them; for they are advanced to this supremacy precisely as though they were already translated to heaven, exalted above human nature, and freed from human passion. Moreover, were a king to confer on one of his subjects authority to imprison and again release whoever he pleased, he would be admired and envied by all. But the priest receives authority from God as much greater as heaven is superior to earth, and souls to bodies.
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Nick
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Nick
4:6 We might think that a good teacher or “minister” is one who comes up with new things for the believer to listen to. However Paul’s definition of a good “minister” here is one that reminds his audience of what they already know – though may have forgotten it. Of course this is not to say that we should not highlight “new “things”. Rather than “new” things should not be spoken of to the exclusion of reminding of what is already known.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devil; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats…”
These passages are frequently cited as refuting Catholic teaching, claiming they identify the belief and practices of the Roman Catholic Church. This is what I had been taught, but upon further study, I realized it was wrong because the RC church does not forbid marriage; it is one of their seven sacraments! The fact is the Catholic Church denies marriages only to those entering the priesthood single, married men may become priests, but not remarry if widowed in the interim. Likewise, with nuns. Be it noted, though, that they enter and accept this position on their own volition. It is their choice.These man-made laws did not apply to the general public! Divorced Catholics may remarry if they pay a fee to purchase an annulment! It is called a Decree of Nullity and issued by the Diocesan Tribunal.
The RC Church forbade eating meat only on Fridays and certain days out of devotion to the Lord. In fact, Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441, quotes 1Tim 4:4: “The Holy Roman church believes, professes, and proclaims that ‘every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving ‘ [1 Tim. 4:4]…” Forbidding meats only on Fridays was their form of a penitential act since Christ was crucified on a Friday, nothing more, and became optional in 1966 at the National Conference of Catholic Bishops! These verses are not about Catholic teaching, but about a future apostasy of those from the faith! The false teachers we are warned against come from among us (2Pet 2:1; Acts 20:30). This is why we need to study, study, study!
False teachers were already creating havoc during the Lord’s time, and he knew these false teachers would be around again before his return. 2Pet 2 warns us to be aware of false teachers because they leave a trail of spiritual devastation in their wake, and so they do! The following is a reply to a letter from the editors, Bre. E.W. Browne and A.T. Jannaway of THE CHRISTADELPHIAN FAMILY JOURNAL, March 1927:
“We are deeply grieved at the trouble that has come upon your meeting as a result of the adoption of what you term the ‘whatsoever resolution’ by the brethren meeting in Avondale Hall. You appear to be in a similar position to that in which we (who now meet in Bijou Hall) were about this time last year. We were required by the brethren meeting at Avondale Hall to consent to the passing of a resolution which necessitated the disfellowship of a brother or sister, who, in harmony with Christ’s teaching (Matt. v. 32 and xix. 9.), might deem it expedient to obtain a legal divorce. How could we consent to put aside Christ’s teaching in this way? How could we consent to deeply wrong a brother or sister for availing him or herself of Christ’s permission?
It was impossible. So the few of us who were of one mind came away from the strife and false teaching, and formed ourselves into an ecclesia. We are united and happy and are pushing on with the work of the Truth, without hindrance, striving to build one another up and also to enlighten the stranger. Now, at the end of close upon twelve months, we do not see that we could have acted differently without searing our consciences. Nay, we can say that God has greatly blessed us.
You ask for our advice. We do not see that there is any middle course open to those who would be faithful. Better, ‘two or three’ meeting in humility and harmony on the basis of Christ’s teaching than an influential number carrying out the ‘whatsoever resolution’ of a misguided ecclesia.”
“The cry of being guided by no man sounds noble, but it is usually hypocritical for it turns out to mean with most of our small friends—‘no man but myself: Dr. Thomas was not infallible, but I am.’ When we are asked to choose between the Dr.’s judgment and theirs, we must be excused for not choosing theirs.” Brother Robert Roberts
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
“Let not a widow be taken into the number under three-score years old, having been the wife of one man.”
Paul uses the similar term ‘wife of one man’ in the same way as in 1Tim 3:2 wherein mias gunaikos andra accurately translated means, “a man of one woman or “a one-woman man.” It is so in this verse wherein a wife is to be “a one-man woman. Paul is talking about faithfulness. Paul does not say that older widows have never been remarried. If he did, why would he tell younger widows to remarry (1Tim 5:11-14) if he knew that this would disqualify them from financial aid in their later years?
Paul is emphasizing positive attributes or character traits in the present situation as he continues to outline Godly behaviour. Faithfulness to the spouse is an absolute must, as is faithfulness to God! It is a serious error to add to what Paul really said even for the noble purpose of maintaining high standards (cf. Rev 22:18,19cf. Mark 7:13).
Paul is not advocating holding the past against anyone let alone treat them as second-class citizens having committed the unpardonable, unforgiveable sin! This is a legalistic mindset in the body of Christ, which Christ and Paul opposed and a far cry from what is read in the pages of the New Testament, which teaches that believers are “children of light” (Eph 5:8), are contributors to the body of Christ (Eph 4:16), and have been given spiritual gifts for the common good of the ecclesia (1Cor 12:7).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
“Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine… Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.”
There is a saying that goes like this: “We will never live better than we know.” It has been said that we can judge a person’s character by the books s/he reads, and “A man is known by the company he keeps.”
I had read that there are four classes of readers and would like to share it with you: The first is like an hour glass, it runs in and runs out, but leaves no visible trace behind. The second is like a sponge imbibing everything, but returns back to its own same condition, only dirtier. The third is like a jelly strainer bag that allows all that is pure to pass through while retaining only the dregs. The fourth is like a worker in the diamond mines who, casting aside all the dross, keeps only the pure gems! There are readers, and there are readers, and an honest, deep, self-examination will reveal which category of a reader we are in.
“Moses and the prophets, the fathers and the kings, the apostles and the saints, were acting realities in their day, standing related to momentous things—but they might as well have never lived for the men who do not make their acquaintance in the Bible, where only the acquaintance is to be made at present. The messages they delivered from God, the commands for the guidance of human action, the promises of good things to come, the declaration of future events, were powerful to stir in the day of their utterance, and are powerful to move men now where they are listened to and realized: but for the man that is ‘no reader’ they are as non-existent as if they had never been given. And Christ, too, is out of sight in the same way to all who do not know ‘the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make men wise unto salvation.” Robert Roberts
The Bible establishes the importance of reading the Word of God (cf. Rom 10:17; 2Tim 3:15-17). What great counsel Paul left us! The Bible is a fascinating book written by men, though dead, yet speak (Heb 11:4).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
4:1 that there were “seducing spirits” reinforces Paul’s words of warning to the Thessalonians – 1Thess 5:21. To prove all things
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
5:24-25 Paul compares sins with good works. Now we know that some of us manage to hide our sins. But they will be seen at the judgment seat of Christ. Likewise good works are sometimes see, but other times are not. However, Paul is saying, those that are not see will be rewarded at the return of Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
These verses have often been referred to as the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Initially, I was told this by Christadelphians. Verse 1 speaks of those who departed from the faith and makes reference to, "in the latter times." Roman Catholicism trace their history to the time of Christ (AD 30-95), but this does not mean Paul was specifically referring to them, or that they even had the Truth at one time. Roman Catholicism does not forbid marriage - marriage being forbidden only to priests and nuns who by their own volition choose to be celibate prior to becoming priests and nuns. They are not coerced into it! Some Eastern Orthodox Catholic priests do marry. They forbid meats only on certain days, fasting being one of them, all other days they eat meat. The connection is weak, at best.
There was another sect in Paul's day that forbade both out-and-out! Paul was opposing certain Gnostic sects' teachings during his time, but it is also a warning to us! He said forbidding to marry and forbidding to eat meat were doctrines of devils, and signs for the latter days! (This sect was vegetarian).
"... the early Gnostics did teach abstinence from sex, marriage and certain foods. What is Gnosticism? Gnosticism was a troublesome perversion of Judaism (and subsequently Christianity) with which the Apostles were forced to contend and refute..."
Paul warned in speaking of our day, "in the latter times," that Gnosticism would rear its ugly head again and so it has. To believe and teach these false doctrines, the doctrines of devils, is to "depart from the faith," even though some claim to be in the Truth or in the Faith, which are synonymous (cf. Rev 3:9) because they contradict God! They are, as Christ described and warned of, "wolves in sheep's clothing" (Matt 7:15).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
4:1 Paul had just spoken of “the house of God, which is the ecclesia of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15), alluding to Bethel: “And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house” (Gen. 28:22). But it was called “Luz at the first” (Gen. 28:19). Luz <3870> can possibly mean “hazel” <3869> (Gen. 30:37) but it is also spelt the same as a verb, one of whose senses is ‘depart’: “let not them depart <3868> from thine eyes” (Prov. 3:21). The Spirit through Paul here seems to draw on this potential for a play on words. To “depart from the faith” is to reject Bethel in preference for Luz.
Nigel Bernard [Pembroke Dock UK] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Nigel
5:7 there are things that Timothy had to say as advice. But when Paul says “give in charge” he is saying that those things were actually commandments. Things that had to be obeyed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
5:16 In the first century there were many in need of financial help, especially widows - Acts 6:1 – and the community stepped up to help to meet the need. This followed the injunction of the Law of Moses. However there is also the ned that family members accept the responsibilities that fall on their shoulders. It is all too easy to avoid one’s responsibilities when it is thought that others might meet those needs.
There is a principle here. We should always seek to meet needs we see rather than wait for other to take on those responsibilities. This can be seen in all aspects of the lives of believers.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
4:14 Clearly Timothy had been given specific responsibilities, not by the will of Paul, but rather the responsibility had been conferred upon him by the words of a New Testament prophet.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
PROGRESS
When I was baptised, I wanted to be perfect. One of my role models was Timothy, because, like me, he was also a godly young man who was busy teaching and encouraging others, pointing them toward Jesus.
When I discovered that I still fell into the trap of sin more than a perfect person should, I was quite discouraged. But I had missed one of the instructions that Paul gave Timothy. Paul told Timothy to teach what is right, to be an example, to publicly read the Bible and to use his gifts. Then he added this: "Practice these things and immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress." (1Tim 4:15).
Here is the point: We are not perfect - we are growing towards perfection. When we allow others to see our progress (as opposed to our perfection), we may well be the encouragement and motivation they need in their lives. Our progress can spur others on to living better lives for Christ themselves.
So let's aim for perfection and make sure we progress toward that aim.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Robert
5:21 There are angles such as Michael who reside with God and there are “angels” who are God’s ministers in groups of believers. We know that it is the latter being spoken of here as they are called “elect”, a way faithful believers are described, for example Rom 8:33
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter