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v.4-6 - Here is a direct example of how God works the circumstances for those that love him. It is a direct example of the truth of the words in Prov.16:7, which should offer a lot of comfort and encouragement to all of us. Rom.8:31
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.1 The seven year famine in the days of Elisha is exactly twice the length of the drought in the days of Elijah James 5:17. A review of the Scriptural record will show that Elisha's ministry lasted twice the length of Elijah's and he performed twice as many miracles as Elijah. Is this a fulfilment of the request of Elisha 2 Kings 2:9 where he asked for a double portion of Elijah's spirit?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.12-15 - The fulfilment of this prophecy is started immediately in a demonstration of the sort of man Hazael was - he went straight home and killed the king, so that his reign of terror could start immediately. This is a terrible thing, but let us be sure not to stand on a pedestal and consider ourselves above such behaviour. How many of us can truthfully say that at no point in our lives have we denied someone something in order to get what we want ourselves? However detached from our experience these stories are, there is always the potential for a humbling lesson.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:16 That Jehoshaphat began to reign in Jerusalem in the fifth year of Joram provides a reference point for Harmonising the dates for the kings in Israel and Judah.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:12-15 So Hazael believed the words of the prophet - unlike the king of Israel. But he then took things into his own hands. As if the words of the prophet had given him Licence to murder his lord.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
8:4 Gehazi was Elisha's servant (2Kin 5:20) but he is now in conversation with the king of Israel. It seems from what the king asked that Elisha was not easily found during the seven years famine and the king, suffering the privations of famine in some way is seeking to understand Elisha's ministry and work.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.9 It would seem reasonable to conclude that Elisha would be unlikely to accept the gift. The services of the man of God were not for sale, though they might be freely given. Compare with Abram and the King of Sodom.Gen 14:21-24
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Hazael was the man whom God told Elijah to anoint as king over Syria. For some reason this was not done by Elijah, or at least it is not recorded as being done. This chapter therefore shows God's purpose being worked out.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
As Elisha derived no pleasure from the necessary work of Hazael, so we can find little satisfaction in these evil days, except to know that the will of the Lord is being done towards a more glorious outcome. We pray that we may join Elisha when the Lord Jesus shall take his great power and reign over all nations.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
V.13 Elijah was charged with anointing three people: Hazael and Jehu to kingly positions; and Elisha to succeed him (1Kin 19:15-17). Elisha was delegated the responsibility for anointing Hazael and Jehu to kingship.
However, there is a difference in their anointing. Jehu was anointed with oil in the traditional manner of the kings of Israel. Elisha delegated this responsibility to one of the prophets (2Kin 9:1-3). Whether the person originally named actually performed the task or a delegate makes no difference.
Hazael was not anointed with oil but was verbally appointed king by Elisha himself. Oil was not used to anoint (appoint) those outside of Israel. Those chosen to fulfil the will and purpose of Yahweh were called His anointed - for example, Cyrus (Isa 45:1).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
8:1 So it appears that the woman is by now a widow as there is no mention of her husband.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
Hazael failed to see the importance of this message until the prophet told him of his destiny, that he was to be king of Syria. He needed no further hint, for on returning to his master he lost no time in bringing about the death of his master. So we see the second part of Elijah's prophesy fulfilled, at this point there still remains the third.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
8:16 The record is careful to point out that Jehoshaphat was on the throne in Judah when Jehoram became king. Look for associations between Joram and Jehoram as you continue the readings. The record is flagging up the close relationship between the two men reigning in the two kingdoms – Israel and Judah. You might consider why the sons of Ahab and Jehoshaphat had such similar names.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
8:3 In consequence of her long absence (7 years) from the country, the woman has had her possessions confiscated by the authorities, hence we see the necessity of her going to the king to attempt to regain both her home and land. There was no statute in the law that would have allowed the taking of ones possessions because of an absence of a lengthy absence.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
Vs.1-3 Elijah had received considerable power from Yahweh. Elisha requested that he receive twice as much as Elijah (2Kin 2:9). He did receive a double portion because the scriptures show that he did twice as many miracles as Elijah. Moreover, the intensity of the miracles was twice as much. A case in point is the seven-year famine. This time period is exactly twice as long as the drought (and resulting famine) in Elijah's time (1Kin 17:1;18:1 cf. James 5:17).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
8:11 The steadfast countenance indicates a man who, knowing the end of the prophecy sorrows at the consequences. Jesus behaved similarly – Luke 9:51 – though there is no indication in Luke 9 of Jesus’ feeling they are seen later – Luke 19:41 - when he entered Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
8:7-9 So even the gentiles believed that the God of Israel was able to save!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.4 If Gehazi were leprous, then Jehoram would have to confer with him from a distance. This could be done at a safe distance where nothing or nobody would become contaminated. The conversation might have taken place in an open space, like a garden, rather than in a building.
Vs.11,12 Elisha was brought to tears at the fore-knowledge of Hazael’s evil, murderous deeds. Elisha could see, in advance, Hazael’s forthcoming behaviour. Ironically, Hazael means whom God sees.
V.13 a dog was considered an unclean animal, both in the Law, and among all the Semitic peoples of the Ancient Near East. The term dog, or any phrase containing dog, was used to degrade and humiliate, such as in 2Sam 16:9; 24:14, for example.
Vs.16,17 Jehoshaphat and Jehoram could not have reigned at the same time. We know that Jehoshaphat reigned 25 years (1Kin 22:42), and Jehoram 8 years (2Kin 8:17). But, about three years before his death, Jehoshaphat handed over the throne to Jehoram (2Kin 8:16; 2Chron 21:3). Therefore, Jehoram reigned 5 years after his father’s death.
V.26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began to reign. The parallel account in Chronicles has Ahaziah at 42 years when he began to reign (2Chron 22:2). This could not be possible, which makes one suspect a copyist’s error.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
8:20,22 The way in which Edom and Libnah revolted might seem quite a natural sort of thing to happen between nations. However we should realise these rebellions are ‘of God’ for Jehoram was an evil king.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
2Kin 8:1-6 - the Shunamite woman and her resurrected son previously mentioned (2Kin 4:8-37) coming back to reclaim her house and land V.3 which may echo the temple/kingdom and promised land inheritance; V.1-2 notes "7" years and perhaps echoes the millenial day of rest, spiritual perfection (God's seal or covenant number) - other mentions of "7" (2Kin 3:9;2Kin 4:35;2Kin 5:14); V.4-5 Gehazi bearing witness of the woman's resurrected son; V.6 the woman receives back everything that belonged to her.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
8:4 The king of Israel was really an oddity! He had little time for the words of Elisha but wanted to know what he had done, calling Elisha’s miracles ‘great things’. His relationship with Elijah, the man of God, was one of distant admiration rather than fellowship.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Wes
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Wes
8:2 That relief from the famine was to be found in the land of the Philistines – just across the border – would indicate clearly that the famine was limited to the land of Israel. A clear indication that the famine was a punishment from God. It was not some natural disaster which affected the whole area.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
8:3-6 The return of the woman after the end of the famine receiving an inheritance is rather like the experience of Naomi in the days of the Judges as recorded in the book of Ruth.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
2Kin 8:9-15 - in verse 9 we have "Ben-Hadad"(<1130> means "son of [the false God] Hadad") asking if he will recover and in verse 10 he is to be told he will, but that he won't and in verse 15 we have the betrayal by the betraying servant who with a mortal strike (to the head or face) buries/baptizes his master. Could Ben-Hadad be an echo of the sinful nature of Christ that was destroyed by Judas who added to the manifestation of his own sinful nature? There was also a recovery mentioned, might that recovery echo the risen Lord? But there no is recovery or victory for sinful nature (Gen 3:14-15;John 20:5-7) which through Christ was put to death. In John 20 perhaps the abandoned linen wrapped around the head was symbolic of Christ and his abandoned sinful nature while that formerly around Christ's body was symbolic of covering the body (believers) of Christ. The idea for this post was suggested by a member in a Bible study and I thought it an interesting theory/guess, but certainly nothing that can be proven. We see now through a dark glass (1Cor 13:12).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
8:18 Jehoram, like all the kings of Israel, was evil. But notice he “walked …” our lives are all journeys. In our lives we “walk”. In which way do we walk? God’s ways are right and should be the way we walk – Hos 14:9
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Recognising God's use of coincidence
There are many methods God uses to work in our lives, and one of the most powerful is by careful use of coincidence. In the example of this chapter (v1-6), the unnamed woman comes to ask the king for her land and property just at the exact time Gehazi is telling the King about the miracle Elisha performed for the woman. If we open our eyes to this we will be able to recognise many times in our own lives where God provided the right person at just the right time to sway events, decisions, or judgments in our favour.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Rob
8:20-22 These verses indicate that even though Joram had routed the Edomites they still revolted against Judah. Joram’s victory was rather a hollow one on this occasion.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
8:1 The amine was a punishment from God. It was His chastening hand. On an earlier occasion Naomi, Elimelech and their family left Bethlehem to try and avoid a similar chastening only to suffer loss anyway. (detailed in the book of Ruth). However here the woman is told to seek to avoid the chastening. An indication of her faithfulness. She was not in need of the chastening at this time.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
8:5 One can imagine the amazement in Gehazi’s voice as he announces to the king who the woman is. The fact that Gehazi could verify what had happened to the woman increased the likelihood that the king would meet her request. What a “co-incidence”!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
8:1 Whilst famine was, it seems, a fairly regular event in Israel we should appreciate that there is a deep spiritual lesson to be drawn from the lack of the provision of food for Israel. In the wilderness Israel were suffered to hunger so that they might appreciate that they should have lived by the word of God – Deut 8:1-3
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
8:4 We might see reminiscing as something that old people do. However there is always value in reflecting and talking about things that God has done in the past through His prophets.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
8:10 Isn’t it strange! The king of Syria is asking the God of Israel, via the prophet, the outcome of his illness! An indication that he realised that Yahweh, not his own gods, had the answer to his problem. So Elisha quotes the words of Gen 2:17 to him.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
8:18 Good king Jehoshaphat’s behaviour, maybe, can be understood this way. He accepted the divided kingdom – unlike the kings of Judah before him – and sought alliances with Ahab to stabilise the relationship between two parts of God’s children. So his son married Ahab’s daughter. 2Chron 21:6 and here. If my assumption is correct Jehoshaphat was trying to make the best of a bad job. So good king Jehoshaphat got entangled in a disastrous alliance. But his motives were good.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
8:4 This is the last time we meet Gehazi. But he is reminiscing with the king of Israel rather than being with Elisha – having lost fellowship with the prophet is looking back (longingly?)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
8:18 We should notice the consequences of association with those in error. The two kings were related by marriage. The consequence was that the king of Judah followed the ways of the king of Israel – not the other way round. We should never think that associating with one in error will automatically bring that person to a correct understanding. This is not to say that we should not talk with those who are in error. Rather the focus is that a solid fellowship based relationship cannot truly be sought.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
THE POWER OF WORDS
Occasionally we hear those amazing stories about the inspirational words someone has spoken to someone else - words that have changed their lives and propelled them to greatness.
Elisha's words to Hazael weren't exactly inspirational, but they changed the course of history. In an unusual encounter, Elisha told Hazael that he was going to become the king of Syria after the current king, Ben-Hadad, died a premature death. So a plan was born in the mind of Hazael. By the time he got back home, Hazael was ready to murder the king and become the king of Syria himself.
Our words can make a massive difference in the lives of those who hear them. We might not be prophets like Elisha was, but our words can still drive someone to despair, or spur them on to greatness. Constant criticism will wear a person down, but if words are continually positive, we can become an inspiration to greatness.
Our spouse, children, parents, employees, students, employers, brothers and sisters, and friends, all need our positive encouragement. So let's make our words positive and encouraging.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Robert
8:3 The woman had been told to “sojourn” wherever she could find sustenance. But notice her focus. When the famine was over she wanted to return to the land promised to her forefathers . Her focus was on the inheritance, not just in having an easy life.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
v.2-5 - This is a direct condemnation of the generations before, and their decision not to pass on the oracles of God to their children. They are to blame for the current curse. Even the mammals of the sea do better than that, God says. What a damning statement, and yet still they do not hear. Do we?
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.2 likening the sons of Zion to the work of the potter is most apt. They had ceased to be malleable in the hands of the potter and so now are broken. Jeremiah 18:1-10
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.20 - We are reminded here that this life is nothing. If we give this life to God, we can look forward to eternity by His grace. If we reach the stage, as I feel we may, that our very lives are threatened by those who detest us for what we believe, then we should take courage in God and know that our sacrifice would be for good, and take comfort in the fact that so many have trodden this path before us, as demonstrated here.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
And yet more quotations from Deuteronomy 28
Sodden their own … meat
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Deut 28:53 | |
as blind men
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Deut 28:29 | |
swifter than eagles
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Deut 28:49 |
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:6-10 Initially we might think that it is strange to say that Jerusalem's punishment is greater than that which was executed upon Sodom. However Jeremiah goes on to explain how that is. Whilst Sodom was overthrown and all the inhabitants died and so their experience ended this was not so with Jerusalem. Jeremiah describes some of the ways in which the Jews suffered after the city was besieged and then taken. The inference is that swift death is better than a lingering oppression.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
4:7 Here Jeremiah describes the 'Nazarites' in the same way that the bridegroom is described in Song
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.14 "they have polluted themselves" They made no effort to cleanse their ways. They were ministers of God's sanctuary, which they thoughtlessly polluted (Zeph 3:4), worshipping "other gods"(Jer 19:4-6), and polluting at last all the land by their idolatry (Num 35:33). The only remedy was for God to require their blood, or deaths, as an atonement.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
V.21 Amidst wholesale condemnation of the people of Jerusalem, Jeremiah points a warning finger at Edom. Ever since the days of Esau, Edom had been at odds with the sons of Jacob.
At this juncture of history the Edomites were overjoyed at the downfall of Jerusalem (Psa 137:7). In fact, the Edomites helped the Babylonians attack Jerusalem.
As Babylon would be punished, so would Edom (Psa 137:8). In the first century, the Nabateans almost totally eliminated Edom. The only remaining part was Idumea from where Herod the Great emerged.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Vs.3,4 The cruelty of Yahweh's people is likened to the cruelty of ostriches in the wilderness. Job gives insight to the behaviour of the ostrich that will help us understand the behaviour of Yahweh's people (Job 39:13-18).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Jeremiah makes an interesting comparison between the punishment of Jerusalem, and that of Sodom (Lam 4:6). Sodom was overthrown very quickly, but Jerusalem’s overthrow was protracted. The reason for this is, I think, that Sodom was not in the Promised Land; its inhabitants were not Jews, and they played little part in God’s plans. Jerusalem however was the apple of God’s eye (Zech 2:8). He gave them many opportunities to repent, and even in their overthrow He promised to bring them back from captivity.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
Lam 4:3 The Ostrich is cited as the pattern of Israel’s behaviour because of the way it deals with its eggs. It lays them in the sand and them leaves them to incubate and hatch on their own. Job 39:13-16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
4:10 When Jeremiah quotes Deut 28:53 he is not simply saying that the curses of Deuteronomy 28 had been fulfilled. He is describing actual events that had taken place in Jerusalem. As such he is lamenting the terrible things that had happened, even though God had predicted that He would bring those things upon Israel if they were unfaithful. In like manner we should not be gleeful when awful things happen in fulfilment of God’s word.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
V.1 Worldly wealth will not save a person in the day of trouble. Those who fell in Jerusalem testify to that (Eze 7:19). It is a mistake to plan one's future based on riches (Ecc 7:14). Trusting in Yahweh is the only guarantee of delivery (Psa 115:11).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
4:19 ‘swifter than eagles’ is another quotation from Deut 28:49reinforcing the message that Jeremiah is giving that Judah are in captivity because they had chosen the curses of Deuteronomy 28 through their sinful behaviour.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
4:12 Seemingly the destruction of Jerusalem was more than one might have expected. Even the nations round about would be surprised. The nations round about should have been rejoicing in the laws of the God of Israel. The current dilemma was a consequence of Israel setting a bad example to those nations.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.3 Sea monsters (KJV) is alternatively translated as jackals (ESV). Either is correct. If we take sea monsters, which would include such creatures as whales, then this verse might make better sense. Whales, as well as other sea mammals, suckle their young. But, the Israelite women, by contrast, ate their young. Such unconcern for Israel’s young is likened to the behaviour of the ostrich (Job 39:14-16).
V.4 Even those mothers, who did not eat (or had not eaten to this point) their infants, had no milk to give.
Vs.6,7 Nazarites (separated ones) were once held in high esteem (Num 6:2). But, even they have succumbed to the ravages of slow destruction (Job 30:30).
V.10 The word sodden (KJV) means boiled. That’s what the women of Jerusalem did in order to cannibalise their children.
V.17 The hoped-for nation, to overcome the Babylonians, was Egypt, but they did not come (Isa 30:7).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
v17 appears to refer to the Egyptian armies they were waiting for.
v19 appears to refer to Zedekiah's hopeless flight from Jerusalem.
v21, speaking of the Edomites (Israel's kin) refers to their wholehearted agreement with what was happening to Jerusalem (Psa 137:7)
And the whole chapter is in precise and clear fulfilment of Deut 28:49-57. Which begs the question: If the sign on the elevator said "Out of order. This elevator is about to plunge into the lift shaft and strike the ground at 120mph. Please use the stairs". Would you get in it? So why had Israel failed to heed their warnings? And if Israel are the prime example given for our learning in the Bible (1Cor 10:11-12), is it possible we could be so foolish too?
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Rob
4:17 The ‘vain help’ that the prophet speaks of is the way in which Israel typically sought for support from countries like Syria and Egypt rather than seek to God for help.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
4:4 In speaking of the thirst of the child there is another example of the curses being fulfilled see Deut 28:48
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
4:11 One has to conclude that those who had been taken away captive could ‘explain away’ their dilemma on the grounds that the Babylonians were a mightier power than little Judah. Jeremiah is clear in making the point that the captivity came from God. As indeed had the Assyrian captivity of the north. How often do we rationalise our lives and shut out the possibility of seeing God being at work in our own personal experiences?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
4:2 God viewed Israel’s children as previous gold. However the Chaldeans viewed them as worthless – like earthen vessels. They were still the children of God even though they were in captivity because of their sins. Do we recognise fellow believers who have strayed as golden or earthen vessels?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
4:21-22 There is irony in Jeremiah’s comment to Edom to “rejoice” (which they did Obad 1:12) They were also to be carried captive by the Chaldeans.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
4:5 The description of the people feeding delicately is contrasting their sumptuous life style which, doubtless was careless in that they did not expect punishment to come from God with the dire circumstances associated with being in Babylon.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
4:1 Jeremiah’s lament is not that material things are spoiled. Rather he sees the gold as a token of God’s glory.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
4:2 Fine gold is how the bride groom is described in Song 5:11. A lovely description of the saviour. But here Israel fall far short of that ideal.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
4:13 the “prophets” are the false prophets. How sad it is that the priests who should have kept knowledge – Mal 2:7 – are linked with the false prophets. The priests’ knowledge should have been witnessing against the false prophets. They should not have been in league with them!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
4:9 it is a sorry state of affairs when being murdered is considered better than dying of hunger. So desperate was the situation of those taken to Babylon. Whilst Jeremiah had told the people to make a life for themselves in Babylon because the time was long – Jer 29:5 – the nation were never to forget that they were in Babylon because of their sins.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
4:7-8 The contrast between men and women being dedicated to God as Nazarites draws attention to the Nazarite vow. Being in captivity is stark and so sad. Maybe we should reflect on Psa 137:1.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
4:9 Jeremiah had said that a time would come when death would be preferred to life – Jer 3:10. That time had now come, but Jeremiah was not rejoicing because his words had come true.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
4:14 In saying that the people wandered like blind men we see Jeremiah is speaking like we see in the curses or Deut 28:29. This is one of the many times that Jeremiah presents the judgments on Jerusalem as a fulfilment of the curses that God said he would bring on the people if they sinned.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
Rose Cox [Leamington Spa] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Rose
PLAN B
Ok, so we have a problem. We have done what we should do by taking our problem to the LORD in prayer, but what if God is slow coming to the party or has other ideas than the ones we might like? What is our Plan B?
As Jerusalem was surrounded by the Babylonian army and about to fall, there would have been many prayers for deliverance going up to God. But at the same time, the people decided that they couldn't rely on God, and neither did they want to change their way of life to live God’s way, so they developed a Plan B. Egypt was their only other hope. Egypt's army was the only one that might possibly have been able to defeat the Babylonians.
This is Jeremiah's description of the people's reliance on Plan B: "Our eyes failed, ever watching vainly for help; in our watching we watched for a nation which could not save." (Lam 4:17). Plan B didn’t work. Egypt couldn't save the people of Jerusalem because God already had the end in mind. Without turning to God, the people Judah and Jerusalem had already sealed their own fate.
If we are going to rely on God, turn to him, and trust in his answers to our prayers as Plan A, then we can forget having to make a Plan B. We won't need Plan B if we put all our trust in God.
Giving our complete trust to God is hard to do. We may be sorely tested as we put our trust in him, but he will do what is best for us. Let's trust him. Let's make God our Plan A, not even think about Plan B.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Robert
2 v.11 - The theme of Satan and the work of human nature within us that turns us against God has been quite strong through these letters, and indeed Paul has actually used this concept of Satan twice already - 1Cor. 11:3,14. There is so much to be gained from a life in Christ as long as we give heed to these warnings and rely on God's grace.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
1:9 'not trust in ourselves but in God' quotes Jeremiah 17:5 & 7
The context in Jeremiah relates to having the law in the heart because the human mind is wicked. That is why Paul continues in verse 12 'not with fleshly wisdom' picking up the problem which he discussed at length in 1 Corinthians.
2:2 - 9 It seems that 1 Corinthians did cause the brethren to respond to the fornicator correctly. Thou it seems that excessive zeal was shown. The brother repented but it seems that the ecclesia did not welcome him back as quickly as they should have.
Notice that even though the letter was written by the holy spirit it still grieved Paul to write as he says - 'out of much affliction and anguish of heart' showing as aspect of how God used men to speak His word. Paul was clearly not a 'puppet'.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
1:8 The 'trouble' which Paul experienced in Asia is described in Acts 19:23 which speaks of the time that Paul was in Ephesus. As an aside this comment here in 2 Corinthians demonstrates that this letter was written after the events described in Acts 19.
2:14-15 We are to be a 'sweet savour of Christ' to God - that is The Father should 'smell' Christ in us. This will only be if we mirror Christ's actions and thoughts in our lives. In the context here in 2 Corinthians this savour was to be found in the way that they dealt with the repentant sinner - the man who 'had his father's wife' - so even in such difficult matters it must be possible to behave in a Christlike way.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
1:9 It is so easy to trust in ourselves. However Paul, using the experience of Jeremiah's counsel (17:5,7) has the correct perspective. If we can truly believe what Jeremiah says then we will do well.
2:10 Paul's attitude to the forgiveness that the Corinthians showed is an example to us. Often we hear of ecclesias which have had to deal with a difficult issue. Maybe we do not like the outcome of their decision. We should be aware that they made their decision based on facts. We cannot know all that they have talked about. We should be willing to accept the judgement of our brethren in these issues.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
It is hard to describe any greater suffering than Paul does in 1v8-10 "we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life." I wonder what the situation was that he had to endure. Whatever it was, amazingly Paul writes of it in a positive light, because it was there "that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead".
Another man who had to learn this lesson was Abraham when asked to sacrifice his own son. "by faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac.....concluding that God was able to raise him up." (Hebrews 11v17-19). This faith of Abraham, this belief in the resurrection, was accounted to him for righteousness. Abraham will be raised from the dead to inherit the kingdom, because of that faith. So also Paul could comment on his own trial "therefore we do not lose heart..for our light affliction... is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory" (2Cor 4v16-18). The word "exceeding" is the same as the words "beyond measure". What a perspective this man had!!
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Rob
2:12-13 Paul's concern for the ecclesia is further shown to be absolutely genuine. His concern for their response to the admonitory letter was so great that he was unable to preach at Troas despite God-given opportunities. Such conduct was incompatible with the detractors' charges that he preached to get a following and insincerely altered travel plans.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
1:12 The word translated 'simplicity' 572 is used elsewhere thus:
Passage
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572
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liberality
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bountifulness
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liberal
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simplicity
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singleness
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singleness
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So we see that Paul is encouraging generous, single minded, prayers.
2:2-7 'Sorrow' is the focus of these verses. Notice how often the word 'sorry' and related words like 'grieved' occur - mark them in your Bible.
So we see clearly the effect that the ecclesial decision about the man who had 'his father's wife' (1Cor 5:1) had on the ecclesia. Do we view withholding fellowship as a way of ridding ourselves of the problem or does it cause us grief?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
2 Corinthians 1: Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Trinitarians would have us believe in God the Father, God the Sun and God the Holy Spirit, all persons of the Godhead and coequal. If that's true, why did Paul only mention God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ and leave out the third person of the Godhead in this greeting? Why did he slight the third person of the Godhead in the greeting of every one of his epistles?
Phil Logan-Kelly [Langlois Ecclesia, Oregon USA] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Phil
2:7,10 Paul shows us the compassionate approach towards one who has been disfellowshipped. The brother who had been set aside for his misdeeds should be revisited (1Cor 5:1,5). If the brother were truly repentant, he would be received back into the fold.
Notice that the onus was on the ecclesia to check on the welfare of the brother. Ecclesias should not disfellowship as a means of excommunication. Too many leave it up to the brother or sister to petition to come back, and many do not.
Ecclesias should take a more pro-active approach in the recovery of the outcast and not do a Pilate - pass the bowl of water please!
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
2Cor 1:3-4 - Here we read another benefit of suffering etc. along with God's comforting us in all our sufferings/tribulations/troubles. When we see others suffering etc. we have an opportunity to better empathise and possibly better comfort others than we otherwise would as we have the benefit of personal experience.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Charles
1:22 We learnt in 1 Corinthians that there was a great deal of emphasis put upon spirit gifts. Now Paul refers to that manifestation as an ‘earnest …’ making the point that the things of the kingdom are far greater than anything they had experienced.
2:16 We should not forget that whilst God finds our service to him a ‘sweet savour’ ‘of life unto life’ the world thinks our actions are foolish – gendering to ‘death unto death’. We must not let the world’s way of thinking affect our attitude to service to God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
2:11Satan ‘ the adversary – harks back to the comment that Paul made – 1Cor 5:5– about the brother who had been out of fellowship who is now to be restored.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
1:11 In saying that he had been helped by the prayers of the Corinthians should have caused them to realise that in fact Paul was a brother to be respected rather than denigrated as he was by some in Corinth.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
1:6 Do we ever think that our difficulties might be for the benefit – ‘consolation’ – of others?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
1:1 We must remind ourselves that Paul was directly commissioned as an apostle by Jesus, according to the will of God (1Cor 1:1). Therefore, what he says are not opinions to be either accepted or rejected, but divinely inspired directives which must be accepted.
1:8,9 We cannot be certain as to what trouble (affliction) Paul is alluding. Some think that it might be referring to the episode at Ephesus regarding the idol Diana (Acts 19:23 etc.). But, it seems that the trouble (affliction) Paul is talking about here is much heavier than the Ephesus episode.
1:17 Paul is talking of vacillation that occurs because of the flesh.
1:18-20 Paul stresses that, although the flesh might want to waver, the doctrines of the Lord, and the promises of God never change.
2:8 Those who have been set aside for reflection and contemplation of their ways, should be loved and not isolated and forgotten.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
1:12 The use of ‘simplicity’ and ‘sincerity’ is going to be developed later – 2Cor 9:6-7 – in a specific context but the seeds of the idea are first being sown here.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
STRENGTH FROM GOD
How hard are the trials we face? At some point in our lives, maybe more often for some than for others, we face trials that seem beyond our ability to bear. Paul and Timothy had the same experience. They said, "We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. Indeed in our hearts we felt the sentence of death." (2Cor 1:8-9) This is as bad as it gets. It was so bad they felt like they were going to die and they had no strength of their own to endure their trials.
They continued: "But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves, but on God, who raises the dead. He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, as you help us by your prayers." (v.9-11) The strength to cope when we can't cope comes from God and from the prayers of others.
A little later we read, "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ." (v.21) He doesn't want us to fail and he will give us all the strength we need to be able to confidently face any trials that come to us no matter how hard they seem. He will not try us beyond what we are able to bear.
Let us put our faith in God and live in his strength during times of trail. Let us also help those who are going through trials by praying for them. Together - me, you, God and Jesus - we will overcome.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Robert
It is clear Paul sometimes came across in the wrong way. Maybe overbearing, or too straight talking. In 2Cor 1:12-14 he explains it is in simplicity and sincerity that he speaks. Sincere, truthful talk is sometimes not easy to listen to. Do we ignore those who we don't like to listen to just because they don't phrase things quite right? And how much help and advice are we missing out on?
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Rob
1:10 That God had delivered Paul is now used by Paul as the evidence that he will continue to care for both himself and the Corinthians.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
1:16 It would appear that Paul intend to make two visits to Corinth on his way to and returning from Macedonia. However it would appear that neither of these visits materialised.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
2:3 despite the terrible state of affairs at Corinth Paul encourages them with the words “having confidence in you all”. How easy it is, if things are not going right, to only see the bad side of things. That approach is not encouraging at all. Unless one can really believe that change can take place there is little point in trying to do anything.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
2:17 In distancing himself from those who “corrupt the word of God” Paul is marking a difference between himself and his teaching from those who led factions in Corinth.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
1:13-14 Paul had his detractors in Corinth. Here Paul is emphasising that the things that he is writing are not new to them. They form part of the gospel that had been preached unto them which they had accepted when they were baptised.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
1:12-13 The letter that Paul wrote under the power of inspiration to the believers in Corinth were challenging. They reproved them for their immoral behaviour and unscriptural attitudes. Now Paul is reminding them that he is not saying anything that they did not know already. When we are reproved do we react in a negative way or do we reflect and realise that what we are being told is exactly what we know and have known from our reading of scripture to be true?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
1:8 When Paul wrote “we despaired even of life” we should realise that Paul felt in mortal danger whilst in Ephesus because of the opposition of the silversmiths and the uproar of the towns people. Despite that he was willing to speak to the people. Acts 19:30
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
“For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life.”
It was recently brought to my attention that a brother in Christ committed suicide. I was asked what I thought about it, but the real question is what does God think about it? The apostle Paul despaired of life, but did not commit suicide. Solomon reached the point where he hated life (Ecc 2:17), but did not commit suicide. Elijah wanted to die, but did not commit suicide (1Kin 19:4). Jonah wanted to die (Jon 4:8), but did not commit suicide.
Examples of Bible characters who did commit suicide are Saul (1Sam 31:4); Saul’s armour-bearer (1Sam 31:5); Ahithophel (2Sam 17:23); Zimri (1Kin 16:18); and Judas (Matt 27:5). They were noted for their wickedness, though nothing specific was said about Saul’s armour-bearer. Some include Samson death as a suicide, but his goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself, though he knew he would die in the process.
Suicide is the pre-meditated murder of oneself. It is a direct violation of the sixth Commandment, “Thou shalt not murder” (Exo 20:13; cf. Gen 9:6). Life and death is in God’s hands (1Sam 2:6; Psa 31:15; Job 1:21), and we should never presume to take God’s authority upon ourselves to end our life.
According to the Bible, suicide is a sin. Taking one’s life is never the right way to deal with our struggling problems, but people who do are very likely depressed or suffer from other mental issues, or are under the influence of alcohol or of drug abuse. Often they want to deal with their issues secretly, and can no longer take the pressure. It is very tragic!
Would God condemn those who commit this last act of sin? We should never presume to make this kind of judgment. This kind of judgment is God’s prerogative, which He delegated to Christ (John 5:22), and not to us. We can judge that suicide is wrong; that it is a sin, but that’s as far as we can go.
Scripture tells us we are to die to self, not kill ourselves. Sorrow over our sins or mistakes should lead us to repentance that we may be restored and not destroyed (cf. Psa 51:17). No matter how incredibly bleak and hopeless our life may seem, we must trust in God’s word (Prov 3:5). We are God’s masterpiece (Eph 2:10). If we value our relationship with God, then whatever we do, it must be to the glory of God (1Cor 10:31). Our body is God’s temple, we are not our own (1Cor 6:19); we have been bought with a price (1Cor 6:20).
Having said all this, 1Cor 3:17 does sound rather ominous, (but as I wrote above, it is a matter for Christ to pass final judgment) so please do not even contemplate it. Email me if you are inclined to such thoughts, or contact anyone. Don't struggle alone. I went through some painful experiences alone, and it shouldn't have to be that way, but I made it, thanks be to God. I know we can work it out together prayerfully with God on our side.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Valerie
2:14 It is because Jesus triumphed over sin and death – Col 2:15 – that we can triumph over sin and death also. These two places are the only occasions when the Greek word <2358> is found in Scripture.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
1:2 That Paul is able to pass on grace from God is an indication that Paul is not writing of his own volition. He is sending greetings from God because God told him to write that.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
FOR YOUR JOY
Here is a great aim to have in our relationships with other believers. It is what Paul had for the believers in Corinth, and no doubt, toward everyone else he met. He said this to them: "Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, for you stand firm in your faith." (2Cor 1:24).
Paul worked with his fellow believers to grow joy! What a great idea! Imagine if everyone you met on a Sunday morning or Wednesday night or whatever time you meet with fellow believers, was there especially to help you grow your joy. And what if you had gone there especially to help put a little bit of joy into someone else's life? Wow! Imagine the smiles, the amazing fellowship, the laughter and excitement we would all feel.
If our meetings were so filled with joy, it would be completely understandable if you didn't want to go home. Joy in the Lord is something we should all be aiming towards and helping each other to grow it. Joy is crucial to our life in Christ. So let us, like Paul, be joy spreaders, working together to grow joy among each other.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Robert
1:1 Whilst each group of believers organise their own activates what they did impacted on others in the area. Therefore the letter was from all the believers in the area – that is on their behalf – from Paul. We do well to think about how our action as a group impact on t=our fellow believers in nearby groups.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
1:5 How did the “sufferings of Christ” abound in Paul? It is evident that Paul “crucified the flesh” -Gal 5:24 - in himself. An element of that was to be seen in the way he ministered to the needs of the believers in Corinth. Are the sufferings of Christ seen in our actions towards our fellow believers? Or is do others see in us our own selfishness?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
1:8-10 Many commentators suggest that Paul is alluding to the riot in Ephesus in Acts 19:23ff. Could it be that Paul is alluding to his stoning at Lystra (Acts 14:19) where he was dragged out of the city and presumed dead? It has been suggested that Paul actually was dead in Acts 14:19 (It is hard to believe that stoning wasn't effective in killing Paul) and that Acts 14:20 records a miracle - he was raised from the dead. Even if he wasn't dead it seems a miracle that a man battered and bruised to the point of death from stoning can just get up and walk back into the city (Acts 14:20). This would make 2 Corinthians 1:9,10 so much more pertinent if Paul was actually raised from the dead.
v11. If the Apostle Paul valued the prayers of ordinary believers, like us, because he knew that they were listened to by God, how much more should we be constant in praying for each other knowing that God acts on the prayers of lowly saints.
Bruce Bates [Forbes Australia] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Bruce
1:7 Are we confident of the salvation of our fellow believers? Or do we think that because they are having difficulties God is punishing them? That is the way that some people think. However it is not the way that a faithful servant of God should think.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
2:6 Paul could have visited Corinth and reinforced the reproof of he “many” but he chose not to go “in heaviness” – 2:1. The human tendency is to join in reproving one who has fallen. The wise and skilful thing is to appreciate when the best course of action is t not reinforce the “reproof
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter