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v.4 - Specific mention is made of the high places not being taken away - ch.12:3, here, 15:4,35. This demonstrates the importance of this action in God's sight. These kings did not make a full return to God. The high places (which were for idol worship) although out of use, were not destroyed until Hezekiah - 2Chron.32:12, and then it didn't last beyond his reign. 2Chron.33:3. Do we have other shrines at which we worship? We must be sure that we remove the high places from our lives completely, even if they are currently 'out of use'.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.27 The seeming all embracing phrase 'under heaven' has a quite specific use in Scripture. The following references demonstrate the universality of Yahweh's judgement. Genesis 6:17 Exodus 17:14 Deuteronomy 7:24 9:14 25:19 29:20 2 Kings 14:27
Not that it always speaks of the whole world as a place but rather that the judgment that is to come is complete
Thus the use in Ecclesiastes 1:13 extends this principle to speak of those things which are happening in His domain.
The two New Testament references Acts 4:12 Colossians 1:23 expand the theme to show that the Father is indeed concerned with salvation for those who will see that life without Christ is vanity.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.6 - In seeing the outworking of this righteous justice, executed by the law, let us remind ourselves that as sinners we deserve death, and so reflect on the wonderful grace of our Heavenly Father in offering us the great hope to escape it.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
14:1-3,20 Whilst Amaziah was a good king of Judah the people had no regard to the law of Moses when they buried him. They used horses to take his coffin for burial. This violated the command in the law which prohibited Israel from having horses at all. (Deuteronomy 17:16)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
FOLLOWING EXAMPLES
One of my favourite songs has a chorus that goes like this,
"Lord I want to be just like you, 'cause he wants to be just like me,
I want to be a holy example For his innocent eyes to see,
Help me be a living Bible, Lord, For my little boy to read,
Lord, I want to be just like you, 'Cause he wants to be like me."
Amaziah, his son Azariah, and his son Jotham were all good kings who followed the examples of their fathers. About Amaziah we read, "In everything he followed the example of his father, Joash."
The scripture commends all these kings for following the good examples of their fathers, yet in one way they did not go far enough. All those kings left the high places still intact and all the people continued to offer sacrifices and burn incense there.
When we see a good person and decide to follow their example, let us remember that everyone who has ever lived has sinned and has fallen short of the standard of God. Only one person ever lived a perfect life and that was Jesus Christ. When we look to others as a good example, look for and follow their best parts and remember to fill in the bad or forgotten parts with Jesus and the Word of God. The example of Jesus and our instruction from God's word are the only two examples we can follow 100% and be sure we are doing what is right.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
:11-14 The way that Israel took the gold from Jerusalem sounds so like the way that Babylon treated Jerusalem and Judah some years later - but Israel and Judah were brethren!!!!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
14:3-4 Yet again a good king with a rebellious nation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.25 We might have thought that with the death of Elisha (2Kin 13:20) the period of the prophets had ended, but, today we are introduced to Jonah who ministered in the same area before becoming the "reluctant missionary" to that Gentile city of Nineveh.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
It was a sad fact that the treasures of the Lord's temple were looted by invaders. Today we note that Amaziah, king of Israel, plundered the Lord's house, and also the king's house. Jehoash was the grandson of King Jehu. Jehu believed in God, and was the one who told a God-fearing man "Come with me, and see my zeal for the LORD" (2Kin 10:16). How times change!
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
Jeroboam's reign of forty one years was considerably longer than any other of the kings of Israel, yet he is dismissed in a mere seven verses in the record. 2Kin 14:23-29
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
V.8 etc. When we read the accounts of the kings, their behaviour resembles that of the time of Judges when every man did that which was right in his own eyes (Judg 21:25).
The pride and arrogance of Amaziah's challenge to Jehoash, and the resulting breaking of Jerusalem's walls and taking of temple treasures, is nothing short of shameful. This behaviour was usually reserved for the enemies of Israel or Judah, and not as a matter of civil strife between brethren.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
2Kin 14:1-3 In reading these verses it appears that king Amaziah was a 'good' king, but when we read 2Chron 25:2,14,27 we learn otherwise.
Tim Taylor [Studley, UK] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Tim
14:4 That the high places were not taken away even though Joash was a good king provides at least a partial explanation as to why the people still did not follow God. In like manner if we have a temptation in our lives we must avoid it completely. It is not good ‘making provision for the flesh’ – Rom 13:14- so that we can return to the temptation whenever we wish.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
V.1 Amaziah appears to be a good king. Initially, this might have been so, but later he changed as pride and arrogance set in. It always pays to get the full story about people and events by reading parallel accounts. Suggested reading, in this case, is 2Chron 25.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
14:5 Clearly the killing of the servants who had killed his father was a carefully prepared plan. Whilst Amaziah doubtless wanted to do it as soon as he was on the throne he waited until he could ensure that his plans would be executed before embarking upon them.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
14:20 If Israel had heeded the instruction of Moses – Deut 17:16 - they would not have been able to transport the dead king ‘on horses’.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.1 Joash reigned two years in conjunction with his father Jehoahaz. And so, this second year of Joash is the first year he reigned independently.
V.5 The two assassins of Joash were Jozachar and Jehozabad (2Kin 12:21).
V.7 There was no love lost between Judah and Edom. Under Jehoram, Edom had revolted (2Kin 8:20). And so, Amaziah decided it was a good time to go clobber Edom.
The rock Selah is a reference to Petra, the capital of Edom. Amaziah changed the name of Petra to Joktheel which means subdued by God. After the incursion by Amaziah Judah held the Edomites in subjection for 80 years.
Vs.8,10 Amaziah was pumped up after his victory over Edom. And so, he thought to challenge Israel.
V.9 Jehoash’s parable, as a reply to Amaziah’s challenge, clearly shows no weakness or lack of confidence on the part of Israel.
Vs.13,14 Israel’s confidence translated in a devastating victory over Amaziah.
V.16 This Jeroboam is often cited as Jeroboam II to distinguish him from Jeroboam, the first king of the Northern Kingdom, Israel.
V.19 Amaziah’s disastrous defeat by Jehoash and the shameful looting of the temple produced many enemies for Amaziah. Also, at this time, Amaziah had turned away from serving Yahweh (2Chron 25:27). However, we are not told who assassinated Amaziah.
V.24 Unfortunately, Jeroboam II followed the same sinful practices as his forefather, Jeroboam I.
V.25 This is the same Jonah as the one who went to Nineveh (Jon 1:1,2). But, at this time, Jonah predicted that Jeroboam II would restore Israel to its ancient boundaries.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
14:21 ‘Azariah’ is Uzziah as can be seen from 2Chron 26:1
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
2Kin 14:25 - "sea of the plain" i.e. the "Dead Sea/Salt Sea" (Deut 3:17); "Jonah" [(3124) means "dove" - the only bird allowed as a sacrifice]; "Amittai" [(573) means "veracious, my truth"]; "Gathhepher" [(1662) means "wine press of the well, the wine press of digging" - it was the hometown of Jonah on the border of Zebulun which is on the coast of Galilee] shows the Pharisees forgot about Jonah's home base of Galilee along with other echoes to Christ (Josh 19:13 - Gittahepher is the same as Gathhepher; John 7:52;Matt 4:12-16;Matt 16:4).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
14:8 The reconciliation of Israel and Judah was not to be achieved in battle. Rather the good king, like Hezekiah rather, should have been encouraging the king of Israel turn back to God. Faithfulness to God is neither proved, or achieved by the use of force.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
14:6 The extensive quotation from Deut 24:16 is given to show the faithfulness of Amaziah. A simple mention that the law was kept might appear to be sufficient but the whole text is quoted, maybe because the law had been forgotten by many in his day.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
14:1 The way in which the reigns of Joash and Amaziah are linked here enables those of us who are inclined to produce a table of the relationship between the kings of Israel and Judah to have a point of reference where we can be sure of the relationship between the two kingdoms.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
Q. It doesn't make sense that a righteous king of Israel (Amaziah) should fall for no apparent reason in battle. Why?
A. The Bible has at least two places where the exploits of the Kings are recorded: Kings and Chronicles. If we check what's said about Amaziah in Chronicles, we get a much more rounded picture. Here are some of the main points which are left out in our chapter but added in 2Chron 25:
- A further ten thousand men were taken captive, and then brutally killed (2Chron 25:12)
- Amaziah's soldiers turned renegade after they were sent home without a share of the spoil (v13)
- The King turned to the idols of Edom (Seir) and brought them home (v14)
After all this, we get the result that "the anger of the Lord was kindled against Amaziah" (v15), yet it is in this state that he foolishly went against Israel in battle instead of first seeking reconciliation with God.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Rob
v.25 Elijah was a type of John the Baptist (Matt 1:14) and Elisha was a type of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jonah's name means 'dove' - a symbol of the Holy Spirit. After the ministry of Jesus, the Holy Spirit guided the apostles to preach the gospel to all men everywhere. Can Jonah be considered a type of the Apostle Paul, who was going in the wrong direction until he 'became like him (Jesus) in his death' (Phil 3:10) and thereafter knew 'the power of his resurrection'? As a result, he, like Jonah, obeyed his calling and headed off the preach to the Gentiles.
Michael Owen [Seaton] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Michael
14:25 The mention of the word of Jonah gives us an insight into the fact that prophets did not always record all of their activities. There is no mention in the book of Jonah of this building. In fact the book of Jonah focuses on Jonah’s personal problems rather than his words.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
14:11 Beth-Shemesh was well within the territory of Judah as was one of the cities given to Simeon – Josh 19:22. So the “meeting” between the kings of Judah and Israel were well inside the borders of the kingdom of Judah. Maybe an indication of the extent of the influence of the northern kingdom at this time.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
14:3 So there are degrees of doing good. Actually we should not presume on God’s mercy. We should always strive to live up to the high standards of His son. Our Father will forgive but we should not presume on that as a reason for not striving always to imitate His son.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
2Kin 14:28 Isn’t it interesting that Jeroboam recovered Hamah and Damascus – towns in Syria. But notice the record says that they “belong to Judah”. There is no record that they ever were under the control of Judah up to this point.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
14:21 Whilst it may well have been that Uzziah was the rightful heir to Amaziah we read that “the people made him king. Such a statement should not have been necessary if the way God had taught Israel that the king should be succeeded by his son.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
14:7 Edom were a perpetual problem to Israel. And yet they were related. They were cousins. The animosity started when Edom refused to allow Israel passage through their land as Israel travelled from Egypt – Num 20:21.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
14:27 Notice that God used an evil king to bring about His will. The promises to Abraham about eternal inheritance of the land of Canaan meant that Israel could not be destroyed. So when it looked as if they might God use Jeroboam to fulfil His will.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
14:3-4 We might wonder why the “high places” were not removed by good king Amaziah. Was he a weak king? Did he try to curry favour with the populous and so allow them to continue to worship in high places? Whilst we cannot know the answers to those questions we can reflect on the principles. Being “good” in oneself is not sufficient. It is not good to turn “a blind eye” to error. Such an example is not good leadership for a king. As aspiring “kings and priests” – Rev 5:10–our “high places” must be removed.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
14:7 Joktheel probably means “blessedness of God”
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
14:8-12 Amaziah, emboldened by his conquest of Edom, now seeks to fight against Israel in the north. What was his motivation? Was it to try and bring Samaria back to a true worship of God? Whatever the reason reconciliation is never achieved by conflict. Rather it is achieved when both parties want reconciliation and talk together.
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Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
14:11 Bethshemesh was on the border OF Judah and Naphtali, see Josh 15:10 and Josh 19:38 and their contexts. So it was on the border between the northern and southern kingdom.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
v.3 - Is this iron pan connected with the law in Lev.2:5? Does it represent a type of offering, and therefore a way of escape, should the people choose it?
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
The first of Ezekiel's 'enacted parables'. The parables had to be enacted because Ezekiel was now dumb. He could only speak if the Lord gave him a word.
He has to lie on his left side for 390 days and his right side for 40 days by a model of Israel with siege engines arrayed against it drawn on a 'tile'. He has to enter in to the feeling of a siege by eating meagre rations.
This is to show Judah that those that are left in Jerusalem are going to be besieged before they are finally taken captive by the Babylonians.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.4 - By lying on his left side he represented the idolatry and sin of the ten tribes (for Samaria was on his left hand from Babylon) and how they had remained in it three hundred and ninety years. Was this something he did all day and night for a year and 25 days? Or maybe it refers to the position in which he slept at night. In either case it was a discipline which he had to enforce on himself.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
4:14 That God was willing to listen to Ezekiel's scruples and so modify his requirements upon the prophet is instructive. We are expected to take account of the feelings of others - there is ample New Testament evidence of this - and here we see that God expects no more from us than He is willing to manifest himself.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
Vs.4,6 Lying on the left side represented Israel; while lying on the right side represented Judah. In the Near East, people oriented themselves according to an easterly direction. Therefore, Israel, the Northern Kingdom, would be on the left; while Judah, the Southern Kingdom, would be on the right.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Michael
Remember when Ezekiel enacted the siege of Jerusalem the city was still standing even though Ezekiel and others had already been taken captivity. Those who saw his actions would remember vividly what they had actually experienced already. One might have thought that this would impact on their minds and cause them to repent, but seemingly it did not.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
4:2 'cast a mount against it' is the basis for Jesus' words in Luke 19:43 - the RV in Luke has 'cast up a bank' - so we see that Jesus likens the upcoming destruction by the Romans as a re-run of what happened in the days of Ezekiel.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.3 The use of iron suggests that far more than the Babylonian invasion is being refereed to. That was but the beginning of Israel's punishments, which would climax in the later judgements poured out by the iron power of Rome.Dan 2:40
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
V.3 Ezekiel was the prophet of demonstration. He had to arduously display Yahweh's will in silence (his tongue was stopped until Yahweh released it). The model of Jerusalem on a clay tablet is obvious, but the iron pan of separation might need some explanation. I believe it is a reference to Lev 26:19, which suggests punishment from which there could be no escape.
Vs.4-6 Ezekiel had to lie on his left side to demonstrate Israel's plight, and on his right side for Judah's. To orient oneself geographically, a person in Bible times would face east. Therefore, the north would be to the person's left, and the south to the person's right. Thus, Israel (the northern kingdom) would be displayed by Ezekiel's left side, and Judah (the southern kingdom) by his right.
Ezekiel would only have to lie on his sides during the daytime when he was prophesying. (A pattern derived from the witness of the light which burned continually not continuously) (Lev 24:2).
The significance of the number of days that Ezekiel had to witness is not certain, but seems it might fit an historical context. The 390 days of Israel, if started from the division of the kingdom in 931 BC, would come to 541 BC. The exiles were free to return in 538 BC. (It should be noted that the Septuagint version records 190 days rather than 390).
If the 40 years for Judah were calculated from the fall of Jerusalem (586 BC), the year would be 546 BC, when Cyrus was coming to the fore. Or, the 390 days could be reflecting the 390 years of captivity in Egypt (Exo 12:40,41; Gal 3:17).
Ezekiel was a Christ-type who bore the iniquity of Yahweh's people (Heb 9:28).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Sometimes people in these days make a fuss about speakers using visual aids. But God arranged some lovely preaching aids for Ezekiel to use. In today’s chapter the prophet is given the wonderful visual aid of Jerusalem under siege. This would really cause interest among the Jews in Babylon. The mute man, lying on his side, eating unpleasant food, and portraying their home city under siege! Visual aids work.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
4:17 In saying that they would ‘consume away in their iniquity’ Ezekiel is quoting elements of the curses of Lev 26:36-39
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
4:2 In speaking of Babylon raising a mount against Jerusalem he is reminding the captives of what Isaiah had already said – Isa 29:3
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
14 Ezekiel had been accustomed to the strictest abstinence from anything legally impure. This would have been the same type of scruple that Peter would have had to deal with when he was told to both kill and eat the unclean beasts Acts 10:14
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
4:3 Israel had shown that they would not listen to the words of Ezekiel so he now performs some enacted parables. A little like street theatre – but this was not an active show. It was a long term passive activity. Every day as people passed by they would see Ezekiel lying on the ground eating a small amount of food living in a very poor situation. It must have made those who saw him wonder. Far more effective than speaking once or twice to people who did not want to listen
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
4:14 Another man who had scruples about eating unclean things was Peter – Acts 10:14 – though Peter was not given the privilege of a change of plans by God. In Peter’s case a major principle was involve.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
RATIONS
Imagine being on rationed food like Ezekiel was. As a parable for God's people, symbolising the famine in Jerusalem, Ezekiel was put on rations just as the people in Jerusalem would be. God's instructions to Ezekiel were, "Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. ... Weigh out twenty shekels of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. Also measure out a sixth of a hin of water and drink it at set times." (Eze 4:9-11) The footnotes in my Bible tell me the weights and measurement of Ezekiel's food in terms that I can understand. He was allowed to eat 200g or 8oz of food each day, and able to drink 600ml of water per day. Ezekiel's rations were probably less than a quarter of what I normally eat and drink each day.
We have to remember that this famine came because the people rebelled against the LORD. They had chosen not to listen to God. In essence they had put themselves on rations when it came to feeding on spiritual things, and as a consequence they were soon to be on rations of natural food.
We would all hate to be living in a time of famine. While we have plenty and while we have opportunities to feast on God's word, let's make the most of it and enjoy both the food we eat and the word of God with abundance and thanksgiving. How silly to starve without need.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Robert
Vs.9-11 The concoction that Ezekiel had to eat was similar to the pulse (cab of dove’s dung) that was selling for an exorbitant price during the siege of Samaria (See my note for 2 Kings 6, on Sept. 1). This kind of food was eaten by either cattle or the poor. And like the siege of Samaria, Ezekiel had to demonstrate the hard times that were in store during the siege of Jerusalem.
The term fitches (KJV) refers to the Nigella sativa. This herb produced black seeds which were sprinkled on bread in the Ancient Near East.
Ezekiel’s culinary mixture had to be portioned out to 390 little loaves, each weighing about 10 ounces.
Ezekiel’s daily water supply amounted to approximately one-and-a-half pints (0.7 litres).
Vs.12,13 Human dung could not be found within the camp of Israel, as it was a defilement (Deut 23:12-14).
Vs.14,15 Ezekiel objected to the use of human dung, and Yahweh relented allowing cow’s dung instead. The lesson for us, here, is that Yahweh will listen to any reasonable request, and that He might be prepared to change His mind accordingly.
Vs.16,17 Unlike Ezekiel, who will have sufficient nourishment for his needs, the population of Jerusalem would not, and many would starve (2Kin 25:3).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
4:8 When God said he would ‘lay bands upon thee’ we have to conclude that this was some form of paralysis which prevented Ezekiel rolling over onto the other side. Whilst being a sign to Israel the whole process must have been very uncomfortable for the prophet.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
4:10 In saying that food was to be eaten ‘by weight’ God is reminding Ezekiel and the people of the curse of Lev 26:26
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
4:16 In saying that He would break the staff of bread God was reminding the people of the curses of Lev 26:26
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
4:3 In setting his face against Jerusalem Ezekiel is enacting what God said would happen if Israel were disobedient to His laws – Lev 26:17. There are many more quotations from Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 throughout Ezekiel’s prophecy which we should be alert to. They indicate that God is telling the people in captivity that they have chosen the curses because of their disobedience to His word.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
1. Ezekiel 4:1-17 - is this also a vision (Ezekiel, 2nd edition, 1999, by John Allfree, p 65-66), an enacted parable, or both?
2. Eze 4:1-3 - siege of Jerusalem:
3. Eze 4:1-2 - (NET) "And you, son of man, take a brick and set it in front of you. Inscribe a city on it—Jerusalem. 2 Lay siege to it! Build siege works against it. Erect a siege ramp against it! Post soldiers outside it and station battering rams around it" - in verse 1 tiles or bricks were used for writing purposes.
4. Eze 4:3 - the iron pan reminds of the strong fortifications set up against Jerusalem which in years to come would bring more than just Babylon to lay siege; the iron pan might also be connected to offerings or fire - (Isa 29:3;Jer 1:18-19;28:14;Deut 28:48;Dan 2:40;7:19;Jer 30:8-9;Lev 2:5;6:20-23).
5. Eze 4:4-8 - the exile:
6. Eze 4:5-6 - 390 years for Israel and 40 years for Judah were represented by a day for each year with Ezekiel putting the sin of Israel and Judah on himself; there is some question as to what the 390 (190?) and 40 years represent; the duration of the captives in Egypt was 430 years (Exo 12:40), and there were 430 years from the erection of Solomon's temple in 1017 BC to its destruction (1Kin 6:1).
7. Eze 4:9-17 - the famine:
8. Eze 4:9-11,16,17 - the scarcity of food.
9. Eze 4:12-15 - defilement/uncleanness involved in eating food in a foreign land.
10. Eze 4:14,15,17 - (NIV) "14 Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign Lord! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.” 15 “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.”...
17 for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin."
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
4:7 In setting his face against Israel Ezekiel was doing what God said He would do towards a rebellious Israel – Lev 26:26
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
How to remember the Old Testament
The approximately four hundred years in v5-6 seems to be a recurring time period regarding Israel.
Gen 15:13, Exo 12:40, Acts 7:6 | dwelling in Egypt, 400 years (or 430 from time of Joseph?) |
Acts 13:20 | period of the Judges, 450 years |
Eze 4:5-6 | Iniquity of Judah and Israel, 430 years |
So we could divide the history of Israel roughly into three sections of four hundred years: Egypt, Judges, Kings.
This is quite an easy way to remember the structure of the old testament. Adding in the men whose lives bookmarked these periods of time, we get:
[Abraham] Egypt [Moses] Judges [David] Kings [Ezekiel/Jeremiah]
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Rob
ON MY BEHALF
What if someone you knew and respected was given Ezekiel's job on your behalf?
Ezekiel was told to lie on his left side one day for a year for all the years of the sin of Israel, and on his right side in the same way for the sins of Judah. 390 plus 40 days Ezekiel had to lie on his side in the sight of his people, bearing their sin.
I would feel terrible if someone was doing that for me. Every time I walked past them, I would see them lying on their side because of the sin that I had done. I think I would have wanted to take their place because the sin was mine, and so the consequences should also be mine.
What a harsh reminder it must have been to Israel to see Ezekiel lying there, uncomfortable but not able to move, and all because of their sin.
But it is like that for us. Perhaps it is worse. It was our sin that nailed Jesus Christ to the cross. He hung there and died for you and me because of the sins we have committed. He died so that we could be forgiven. All too often we walk right past and either hide our eyes, or don't even notice. The price of our salvation was paid in the death of God's perfect Son.
Let's not be like Israel and refuse to see our sin, but in the light of the Son of God, examine ourselves, repent and turn back to God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Robert
4:3 The way Ezekiel is told to set the iron pan between himself and the model of the city indicated that, whilst it was the Babylonians who were besieging the city, Ezekiel, as God’s representative was bringing the judgments. It is important to realise that even though foreign powers brought devastation against Jerusalem they were doing it at the behest of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
4:4-6 Doubtless this charge laid on Ezekiel was inconvenient, probably painful. However he was to do it. Thus his actions associated him with the suffering of the inhabitants of the city. Ezekiel was not disconnected from the plight of the people. And in performing this action showed he was identifying himself with the people. Similarly Jesus shared the experience of the people, bearing their sicknesses – Matt 8:17.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
4:8 This is the first of 13 occasions when Ezekiel was told to “prophesy against” All but three of the occasions the prophecy is against Israel. What a sad reflection on the nation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
4:10 the enacted parable of Ezekiel is seen being spoken of later – 17:21 – where the sword and scattering are mentioned again, this time with specific reference to Zedekiah and the end of his kingdom.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
4:1 The way that Ezekiel made a model of Jerusalem and set a siege against it matches exactly what an earlier prophet – Jer 6:6 – had said. It is probable that those who Ezekiel was speaking to had heard Jeremiah’s words when they were in Jerusalem.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
4:9-13 We might conclude that Ezekiel rose from his lying position to prepare his food and drink, returning to the position God commanded him to keep.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
4:13-15 Notice the way that God responds to Ezekiel’s reaction to the way he was required to prepared his food. Ezekiel, the priest, has all his life, even in captivity, kept himself as pure as possible according to the Law of Moses. Whether the request was a test of Ezekiel’s commitment to the Law of Moses or not we see that God is willing to take account of the prophet’s feelings. This should encourage us to realise that our God’s compassion extends to take account of human feelings that do not conflict with His will.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
4:10 Given that the limit of food that could be eaten is specified we must conclude that not only was Ezekiel uncomfortable being forced to lie in one position. We have to conclude also that he was hungry also most of the time – for that is how the nation would be in Jerusalem before it finally fell to the Babylonians.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
4:16-17 the three quotations from Leviticus 26 – see previous comments on this chapter – is an indication that even whilst the nation were in captivity they were expected to still be familiar with their earlier writings, in this case the writings of Moses whilst Israel were as Sinai on their way from Egypt.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
12 v.14 & 13 v. 1-2 - Clearly the problems at Corinth required a lot of Paul's attention - two long letters and 3 visits - but not, it seems, for the right reasons. This third visit here is equated to the type of procedure that Jesus instituted in Matt.18:15-20. It is clear that Paul is returning to sort out trouble, and not for the first time. He warns them (v.2) that this time he will be ruthless with them. We cannot fail to be impressed with the longsuffering of this man, and with the lengths he has gone to not to reach this stage - the letters and previous visits must have taken a lot of his time and taken time from the conversion of others, but Paul does not shy away from the work, even if it is of a less savoury nature.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
12 v.1 - 8 Continuing the theme of boasting and exaltation Paul stresses that the 'thorn in the flesh' was from God that he did not boast in the way that those who were opposed to him were inclined to do.
The way that the rest of the chapter continues shows that the Corinthians had a real problem with the status of Paul - doubtless through the seditious words of Paul's antagonists. The antagonism and its effects deflected from the purpose for Paul's work and what it achieved.
13 v.3 'Since ye seek a proof' - again the effect of the 'false Apostles'
v.11 The exhortation to be 'of good comfort', 'of one mind', to 'live in peace' etc: encapsulate the concerns of the Apostle in both the first and second letter.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
ch.12 - We waste our time trying to know what Paul's thorn in the flesh was. What we should learn from his affliction was the thing that the apostle learnt. He learnt that God's grace was sufficient for him (12:9) That is he realised that he did nothing through his own strength. If only we could learn this!
ch.13 - Paul continues the concept of human weakness when he tells us that Jesus was 'crucified through weakness'. Of course the 'weakness' Paul speaks of is the fact that Jesus was one of Adam's children. The wonderful thing is that even though he was a man Jesus, by relying on God, was able to deliver us who are weak and yet are unwilling to totally rely on God's strength.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
12:2,7 Whilst Paul does not claim to be 'the man in Christ' maybe he is speaking of himself. The 'thorn in the flesh' that he was given is described immediately after the comment about revelation as if the two events are related.
13:14 What is the 'fellowship of the Holy Spirit'? Is it something that no longer is available since the ending of the Holy Spirit gifts? Actually the Spirit gifts and fellowship of the Holy Spirit are totally different things. The gifts 'ceased' but the fellowship continues. The means whereby the fellowship exists is the Holy Spirit. That is through the words which are 'Spirit' (John 6:63)
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
12:4'Not lawful' is a repetition of the Greek word 1832. Whenever it occurs singularly it carries the meaning of allowed. So Paul, whilst not being allowed - by his understanding of the gospel - to speak what he had seen he was still fully aware of the vision he had received.
13:5 In saying 'examine yourselves' Paul is using the word 3985 which is elsewhere translated
Matt 4:1 tempted
Matt 22:35 tempting
Heb 11:17 tried
Paul is encouraging us to test our faith. Not by doing foolish things - such as the temptations which Jesus resisted in the wilderness. Rather to use our understanding of Scripture to mould our actions.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.17 Paul's reply: You know well I did not. My associates were as disinterested as myself. An important principle to all who would influence others for good.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
12:4 In saying that the things seen ‘were not lawful for a man to utter’ reinforces the point made the first time we read this chapter this year. Paul did not want to get involved in discussions about visions. Revelation in Scripture is more powerful than what a man has experienced in a vision.
13:5 The examining – proving – of ourselves should cause us to realise that we are not going to be cast away. However this should not be a complacent conclusion but one that comes from a realisation of how we are striving to be more like Christ and less like Adam.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
PERFECTION
We cannot do any better than to be perfect. It is only when we become perfect, and consistently perfect, that we can say that we are as good as we can be. In the meantime it is our responsibility to aim for perfection and to help others achieve it in their lives.
Perfection is one of those elusive qualities that, it seems, no matter how hard we try, we never seem able to achieve it. It is only with the help of God that we can ever hope to be perfect. With this in mind, we can take to heart the words of Paul, when he said, "And our prayer is for your perfection." (2Cor 13:9)
No-one is perfect, but wouldn't it be great if some of us were? The encouragement we can gain from Paul is to pray for perfection. Let's not only pray it for ourselves, but especially for our brothers and sisters, just as Paul did. His prayer was for the believers at Corinth and for everyone who read their letter. Praying for the perfection of each other will be giving each other some of the richest blessings we could give. So let's do it: Pray for the perfection of those you love
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Robert
V.15 As we read this verse, we get the impression that as Paul's love grew for the Brethren and Sisters in Corinth, the less he was understood, and in turn their love towards him diminished
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
13:9 It may seem odd that Paul is glad when he appears weak and the Corinthians appear strong but in reality it would be good if the Corinthians were stronger than Paul. In reality though they only thought they were strong but were actually weak. We should be careful not to form opinions about ourselves which enable us to denigrate others.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
12:2-4 Paul had a glimpse of the ultimate glory that awaits the accepted servant of Yahweh (See 1Cor 2:9).
His glimpse into the future was beyond the kingdom period. We live in the first heaven (dispensation); the kingdom period is the second heaven; and the time when there will be true God-manifestation (1Cor 15:28) is the third heaven.
12:7 To keep Paul grounded, Yahweh gave him a thorn in the flesh. That affliction probably referred to the false apostle(s) he encountered in Corinth. This false opposition would dog him throughout his apostleship.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
12:7 Continuing our comment for March this year we see that Paul sees his thorn in the flesh as sent by God to prevent him becoming puffed up. Thus reinforcing the importance of humility in personal revelations.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
12:7 In speaking of the ‘thorn in the flesh’ Paul implies that it would be easy for him to have been ‘puffed up’ and his problem, whatever it was, served to help him to realise his position. A continuing reminder to the Corinthians to avoid following those who sought to lead them astray by desiring a following.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
12:4 The word paradise (Gr. paradeisos) refers to a garden (sometimes it is translated orchard). The reference is really to the Garden of Eden, before the fall. Then there was a perfect state of harmony throughout creation. The state of perfect harmony, between Yahweh and His creation, will once again be achieved with God manifestation (1Cor 15:28).
Paradise does not mean a place to where souls float after death. This is one of the many pagan myths that the apostate church has incorporated into its religious beliefs.
12:8 Paul sought Yahweh three times for the removal of the thorn in his side. Three is a complete number. If we have a problem that we would like removed, how many times should we seek Yahweh? Yahweh, of course, hears the request the first time it’s delivered. But, persistence has its virtue. Perhaps, though, petitioning Yahweh more than three times might be excessive.
13:5 If we are walking correctly, following the commandments of Christ, we know that Jesus dwells in us. If we are not walking correctly, even though we claim to be Christ’s, Jesus has no part of us.
13:8 The Word of God can never be extinguished. Many have tried throughout history, but all have been unsuccessful. Likewise, it is impossible to damage the Truth. It does not need to be defended or protected – it needs to be represented.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
13:3 In seeking a ‘proof’ of Paul’s apostleship we see again another indication that there were some in Corinth who would try to undermine the status of Paul as an apostle that they might present their version of the gospel which was Judaism.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
IN THE FACE OF REJECTION
It seems that Paul did not quite know what to expect after he had sent his letter and planned his visit to the believers in Corinth. He wasn't sure whether his letter would have made a difference in their attitudes, whether they would have repented of their sins, or even if they would accept him as their brother or not.
Rejection is one of the hardest things for us to deal with, and probably no less for Paul. I found out the other day that a very good friend had held back on asking for my help because he was afraid I might say no. Whatever the reason, rejection hurts. As it turned out, I assured him that if it was at all possible, I would do almost anything for him.
Paul knew the love he had for the believers in Corinth, and he also knew the likely rejection he would receive from them. But he was not going to throw away his love because of their response to him. He said, "If I love you more, will you love me less? Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you." (2Cor 12:15-16) He also said, knowing the chance of rejection, "So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well." (v.15) Let us not be distracted from a loving attitude by a response that is cold or by rejection, but like Paul, continue showing love, care and compassion, no matter what is thrown our way.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Robert
STRENGTH TO CARRY ON
Do you ever get frustrated helping people when you seem to put in so much time, love, energy, emotion or resources, and yet the response or rewards for your service do not seem in any way to correspond with what is put in. Some might describe it as working toward a hopeless cause.
Paul must have felt a bit that way about the believers in Corinth. Of all the places he visited he appears to have spent more time in Corinth than any where else. Added to that is the fact that he appears to have written them at least four letters, the two of which we have in our Bibles are among the longest letters he wrote. And we can also be sure that Paul spent time in prayer for these people who were so dear to him. But for all the effort Paul put in to building up the believers in Corinth, progress was very slow, almost non-existent. He must have felt like he could not go on supporting the Corinthians like this or it would wear him out.
It was not his own strength that Paul credited with keeping him going in his dedicated service to these people, he gave the credit to the strength of Jesus working in him. "He (Jesus) is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you." (2Cor 13:3-4)
Let us, like Paul, not give up on difficult people, but ask for and rely on the strength of God through Jesus Christ to give us the strength to serve one another even when it seems hopeless.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Robert
"when I am weak, then I am strong" (12:10) is a principle worth bearing in mind.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Rob
12:5 The word translated ‘glory’ is elsewhere translated ‘boast’. This translation emphasises the party spirit – ‘I am of ...’ which Paul is countering in both of the letters to Corinth that we have.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves..."
We are commanded to examine ourselves to see if we truly measure up with the Word. To do this effectively, we must adopt the prayerful attitude of the Biblical saints.
In Psa 139:23-24, David prays, "Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me..."
In Jer 10:24, Jeremiah prays, "O LORD, correct me, but with judgment, not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing." Then in Lam 3:40, he tells us to, "...search and try our ways and turn again to the LORD."
We see here the attitude of a truly converted person, someone who desires to be shown his errors, his sins of heart and mind, his sins of omission and commission. These are the truly contrite ones that tremble at God's Word, and it is to such that God will look upon with great favour (Isa 66:2).
We have learned to examine ourselves by our diligent study of the Word, through our trials and sufferings, and through our mistakes. Examining ourselves is a solemn and sobering process, not superficial by any means, and designed to reach to the very heart of our being. Solomon writes, "Keep thy heart with all diligence; For out of it are the issues of life" (Prov 4:23).
As far as we may have progressed in the Truth, we may not recognize, let alone acknowledge, the stony parts still left in us. This is why we must pray to God to reveal to us exactly who we are inside where normally only God can see. We must implore Him for understanding about who we really are in His eyes, and how we really stand with Him. This is examining ourselves in totallity, and this is what the apostle Paul meant when he said, "But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body" (1Cor 11:28).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Wes
12:19 Whilst Paul’s detractors focus their accusation on what they wish to show as Paul’s money grabbing attitude (which was not even true) Paul focuses on what working in Christ is all about. It is about Edification. He already made this point - 1Cor 14:26 – when he wrote to them previously.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
12:20-21 Paul is concerned that he will find problems in Corinth when he visits them. However he speaks to them of his own humiliation if that is what he finds. This is because he would see it as an indication that his instruction had not been taken seriously. Whilst Paul was not responsible for their errant practices he speaks of his humiliation rather than their error. An indication of how much care he had for the believers in Corinth.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
IN GOD'S GRACE
Paul had been given some amazing visions that were to give him hope and motivation through his life. These visions were so great that there was a chance that Paul could become big headed about the fact that the Lord had chosen to reveal them to him. So to prevent any conceit on the part of Paul, he was also given a thorn in his flesh, a messenger of satan to torment him. (2Cor 12:7).
So while Paul was given such great revelations, he was also given some equally bad troubles so that he couldn't boast and proudly say that he was more special than anyone else. As he asked for the troubles to be removed, Paul was given this answer: "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (v.9).
It was grace that gave Paul the visions. It was also grace that gave Paul the problems. And it was grace that said to Paul that no matter what Paul thought, God's best was the best for him. God's best, good and bad, were what made Paul the great man he was.
God's grace is sufficient for us too. His grace in our lives might be good things, and it might be things we don't like or that restrict us. Either way, God knows best. Let's rest in his grace knowing that he is working for our best to show his glory.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Robert
12:10 “therefore” shows that Paul’s acceptance of the infirmities etc. that he has spoken of is a direct consequence of his realisation that Jesus has set him an example. Do we feel that God’s grace is sufficient for us? Or do we feel that we are in control of our own destiny?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
12:9 How do we understand that God’s grace is sufficient for us? It certainly does not remove the problems we experience in life. The way in which God’s grace is sufficient is in this way. If it were not for God’s grace in forgiving our sins – something we do not deserve – then life would be pointless
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
12:8-9 We do not know how Paul was told that God’s grace was sufficient. But we know that in our own experience we do not always receive what we pray for even if we see our request as beneficial for our work of serving God. We should not presume that God has not answered our prayer if we do not receive what ask for. Such an attitude would reflect a way of thinking that we always get what we ask for.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
12:14 In saying he would not be a burden [financially] to the Corinthians {aul is returning to a point he has already made – 2Cor 11:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves… except ye be reprobates?”
In examining ourselves, we must begin by not lifting a text out of its context, as we cannot interpret a verse correctly without seeing what precedes and follows it. A verse pulled out of context is a pretext for false doctrine. Paul is asking the Corinthians to examine themselves, prove their own selves whether Christ is in them. He did not say “examine me” when the Corinthians questioned his apostleship and proof of Christ speaking through him (v. 3). Nobody knows anyone else’s heart, but human nature being what it is, we tend to busy ourselves examining others’ spirituality instead of our own and are paying a terrible price for it.
Here are a few questions I ask myself. It is hardly comprehensive, and you may have your own list, but it is a start: 1) Am I one of those who believes Yahweh and the Bible, but do not obey Yahweh nor change my behaviour, as described in the Bible? 2) Am I one of those “pew renters” who keeps the Memorial Service every First Day of the Week, but once the Service is over, do I continue as a child of Yahweh?”
3) Am I one of those who opens my Bible to do the daily readings, but then embrace false teachings because I haven’t seriously and prayerfully studied what I read? 4) Do I believe I am born again, but do not follow Yahweh let alone obey Him? 5) Am I very committed to the Bible and believe in its true interpretation, but there is no visible evidence that I am truly born again? 6) Knowing the Truth and how Yahweh desires obedience, I desire to be obedient, but am I, as described in the Bible? 7) Do I have a close relationship with Yahweh and submit myself to His guidance?
Truly born again believers strive to produce the evidence that they submit to Yahweh’s guidance. They have a true relationship with the Father and actually practice and submit to His commands. There is a noticeable difference with them; their profession being manifested by their words and actions. Christ pointed out the way to salvation is narrow, the gate strait, few find salvation because it is only the few that live the narrow way (Matt 7:13,14; 22:14). Knowing the Bible, but not obeying it with our hearts, will find no acceptance with Christ. What Christ looks for is sound doctrine and sound practice (cf. Eze 33:31; 2Tim 3:5; Titus 1:16).
To be a disciple of Christ, we must be learners. W.E. Vine’s AN EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY of NEW TESTAMENT WORDS, p. 308, defines disciple as, “MATHETES, lit., a learner… indicating thought accompanied by endeavour… A disciple was not only a pupil, but an adherent; hence they are spoken of as imitators of their teacher; cp. John 8:31; 15:8…” We must repent and become converted (Luke 13:3-5; Acts 3:19; 11:18; 20:21; 2Cor 7:9,10); we must be learners, endeavouring to adhere to and imitate our Master - these qualifications are necessary if we are to be his disciples! May we be brutally honest with ourselves when examining ourselves that we be not “reprobates,” which signifies, “not standing the test, rejected” (W.E. Vine, p. 955), for our salvation depends on this (cf. Psa 139:23,24).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
12:13 It would appear that the Corinthians were complaining that Paul had not taken money from them for his sustenance when he was with them. It seems that they saw that as a slight on them. Clearly missing the point that Paul did not want to be holden to them because they had given him money.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
13:2 it seems that Paul had planned to visit Corinth but those attempts, for one reason or another, had been hindered. It would seem that those who opposed Paul used the fact that he had not come, even though he had said he would, as evidence that he was a weak willed individual. So Paul makes it clear that he will deal with the problems whatever is thought of him.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure…”
This thorn in the flesh was given to Paul after his revelation of the “third heaven,” “caught up into paradise” (2Cor 12:1-5). To counter the temptation to be exalted, God permitted people to persecute Paul and keep him humble.
The Old Testament clearly defines for us what the meaning of “a thorn in the flesh” is:
“… those that you let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land in which you dwell” (Num 33:55).
“… God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes…” (Josh 23:13).
“And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land… they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare to you” (Judg 2:3).
“And there shall be no more a pricking brier to the house of Israel, nor any of grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them…” (Eze 28:24).
“Thorns” always referred to people! Paul used Old Testament terminology that well explained the situation he was in. Nowhere in scripture does “thorn” refer to sickness, disease, or physical infirmities, but only to people who harassed, vexed, and persecuted, and in the case of Paul it was excessive (2Cor 11:23-33)! Paul was buffeted by the people, and to get a good idea of what it is to be buffeted, I refer you to Matt 26:67,68 Mark 14:65. This messenger of Satan, or adversary, was sent to buffet Paul. Buffet, # <2852>, kolaphizo, “to rap with the fist.” Paul was struck with the fist! It is the same word used in Matt 26 and Mark 14 when Jesus was buffeted before his crucifixion.
Taken in context, it is about the persecutions Paul suffered at the hands of his adversaries instigated by a ring leader(s) who stirred up the people; this was his “thorn.” Who were his adversaries? His own brethren, the unbelieving Jews (Acts 13:50; 14:2,19; 17:5,13 20:19; 21:27,28)!
The infirmity of his flesh was bearing the marks of Christ, the afflictions of Christ (Gal 6:17; Col 1:24) suffered, as with Christ, at the hands of his adversaries/enemies, and Paul suffered it all gladly for Christ’s ecclesia (cf. Matt 5:11,12; Acts 5:41; 1Pet 3:14; 1Pet 4:12-14!
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
POWERFUL PRAYER
Here is a simple prayer that Paul prayed for the believers in Corinth, and we can pray for each other. This is what Paul said he was praying: "But we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed." (2Cor 13:7).
It's so simple! I pray that you may not do wrong, but that you may do what is right.
I wonder what would happen if we all started praying this for each other? Maybe the temptations we all have to deal with will be reduced. Maybe our conversation will be more uplifting. Perhaps we would all miss less opportunities to preach the gospel or to do good to the people around us. It's possible that it will result in the sound of praise rising to God and great glory to him as he keeps us from sin. It might even change our habits and attitudes to the joyful and holy lives God wants us to live. It might change whole communities!
I pray that you will not do wrong but that you may do what is right. Pray it now. Pray for me. Pray for each other. And give thanks for the blessings of God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Robert
A reader writes: “I always appreciate reading your comments and respect your approach to God’s word.I hope you might appreciate a few thoughts of my own regarding some points you raise.
Your 2018 offering included “Truly born again believers strive to produce the evidence that they submit to Yahweh’s guidance.”I take the context of your words being the need to examine yourselves but would you not agree that being born again is the fundamental issue taught to Nicodemus that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. I do not see this as anything to do with moral renewal but the reality that a Jew under the Mosaic system needed to come by Christ the Way, Truth and Life to God. This I believe is the passing from flesh to spirit – not by the will of man but of God. This description of Jesus’ birth and must be true of all sons of God (John 1v12-13).”
My reply: We find symbolism throughout the Bible. Sometimes “flesh” is used literally (Heb 10:20), and sometimes figuratively as in Rom 8:9, wherein Paul teaches that our new spiritual nature must rule over the old if we are to have the “Spirit of Christ” in us. Christ taught that flesh and blood, referring to the natural living mortal body, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The phrase here, “flesh and blood,” does not literally refer to “flesh and blood,” but living breathing humans living in a fallen state (cf. Heb 2:14). We must be very careful not to mingle the figurative with the literal. It is the symbol of the corruptible and in our present state the corruptible cannot inherit the incorruptible (1Cor 15:50,53). Our body of sin and death has corrupted God’s way, and must, therefore, figuratively “die” in the waters of baptism symbolic of sharing in Christ’s death, and then be raised to “walk in newness of life” (Rom 6:3-23). We pass from death to life, or as you put it, “flesh to spirit,” but If our old sin nature does not figuratively die, there is no literal newness of life, which deals very much with morality (Gal 5:16-26). Christ is our pattern which we are to follow and act on his words (cf. Heb 5:8,9); not in the manner of following a system of rules, as the Israelites were guilty of (cf. Matt 15:7,8; Rom 2:25-29), but having a personal relationship with him and God. Our self-examination is commanded, and for good reason (2Cor 13:5; 2Pet 1:10,11).
When Christ told Nicodemus in John 3:3-7, “Except a man be born again…” the emphasis is on a spiritual rebirth, not a natural to which Nicodemus referred, and this rebirth can only come through the power of the Holy Spirit, God’s Word (John 6:63; cf. Matt 16:17) – if we allow it to work in us. God showed us the way, but it is up to us which path we choose: the wide or the narrow (Matt 7:13,14).
God’s will is that we be saved, but there are conditions attached to it, which is so contrary to what Churchianity teaches! We are willing participants in our choices (cf. Josh 24:15; Mark 16:16); obedience is not optional, though some think so (Luke 6:46-49). A genuine saving faith always results in a life of spiritual progression. If we don’t hate sin, have no Godly growth, if we don’t hunger and thirst for God’s Word, if we are willfully disobedient, how can we expect salvation? Faith is equated with obedience/works (James 2:17,26); unbelief is equated with disobedience. The connection is inseparable (Acts 6:7; Rom 1:5; 10:16,17; Rom 16:26; 2Thess 1; Heb 11:8; 1Pet 1:21,22). A new nature will bear good fruit.
While presently we are literally flesh and blood (cf. Lev 17:11), the Word transforms us from walking in the natural to walking in the spiritual. Baptism is but a process to this end. We must walk in the spirit now if we are to partake in the everlasting resurrection with Christ at the Judgment when our bodies will be fashioned a glorious body, flesh and bones, patterned after Christ’s (Luke 24:39; Phil 3:21).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
A reader writes: “Taking this context to your comments for today’s reading I feel that Paul’s thorn in the flesh is indeed to do with those who were still in the Mosaic fleshly insistence on living by man’s works. I wholeheartedly agree with you when you ask “Who were his adversaries? His own brethren, the unbelieving Jews”.
The satan of the Old Testament is frequently if not always to do with God’s activity. I agree withGirdlestone in his book on Old Testanent synonyms “The Bible reminds us more than once that provocations to evil are not only permitted but ordered by God, to test those who are strong in faith, and to show those who are depending on themselves how vain it is for them to trust in any one but the living God. “
My own take on messenger of Satan is that the High Priest Sadducees were constantly seeking to undermine new man Paul’s work in revenge for losing the zealous old man Saul. I think the wording of Colossians 3v9-11 is very significant and entirely missed by Christadelphian commentators. The old man and new man is a corporate body and not speaking of individuals. This becomes obvious when we read that “the new man is renewed in knowledge after the image of him (Christ) that created him where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” This makes no sense if we make the new man to be an individual who has been baptized into Christ.
There are many implications for the view that when we read of being in the flesh Paul is referring to remaining under the law of works. In particular it challenges how we read Paul’s letter to the Romans. For me 3v19-20 “Now we know that whatsoever the law saith, it saith to them under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world (kosmos) may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified (righteous) in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” is all about the limitations of the Jewish law. God’s righteousness Paul goes on to say is by faith of Jesus Christ for under the law all sin and come short of the glory of God.
Thank you for your patience sister Valerie in taking the time to read this. It is a very lonely life trying to swim against the tide of popular belief. I don’t expect you to fully agree with me – few do- but it helps to speak to those who have an open mind and are willing to search the scriptures.
My reply: The “Mosaic fleshly insistence on living by man’s works” you refer to is their having to do with keeping the Mosaic Law. The Law was “holy, just, and good” (Rom 7:12; 1Tim 1:8; cf. Rom 8:4), and that we uphold the (moral) Law by our faith in Christ (Rom 3:24-31). Paul was trying to show them that they were now under a new dispensation in Christ and in Christ, there are no sacrificial or ceremonial laws to keep since Christ fulfilled them at his death (Rom 7:4-6; 2Cor 11:2; Heb 10:4-27). The majority of the Jews rejected Paul’s teaching, which was Christ’s.
God is not the author of evil (James 1:13,14), He does, however allow bad things to happen to us to humble us, to prove us, to know what is in our heart, and whether we will obey Him (Deut 8:2,3). It is part of His disciplining His children to mature spiritually and to develop our character (cf. Rom 8:27-29). Knowing the love of our Father, we rejoice because by being partakers with Christ’s sufferings, we will share in his glory (1Pet 4:12,13). Thus, Paul could glory in his infirmities knowing that all his sufferings would lead to his ultimate glorification (Rom 5:3-5; cf. 1Cor 6:11). This is faith; it is to trust in our Father, in that, all things will work out for good in the end (Prov 3:5,6; Rom 8:28).
God is not a “Christian,” but operates in Wisdom and Justice; he does not provoke evil, which would tempt us to sin! We either cause ourselves, or others to sin. What God does is meant for our good. He knows our heart and works accordingly. We have to be very careful in reading Christian works, knowing that Christians are Pagans being outside of the commonwealth of Israel!
You state: “My own take on messenger of Satan is that the High Priest Sadducees were constantly seeking to undermine new man Paul’s work in revenge for losing the zealous old man Saul.” May I suggest the Pharisees and Sadducees were angry with Paul because his teachings condemned them? He showed their hypocrisy just as Jesus did who taught Paul (Gal 1:11,12)! In their anger they got Christ crucified, only to contend the same issues with Paul and Christ’s disciples! Christ’s condemnation of them is not something easily brushed aside (Matt 23:13-39). While they boasted in keeping the law, they actually wrested it (Matt 5:21-48). This passage is often misinterpreted. Jesus did not change or relax the law, but condemned those who would and did.
A corporate body is made up of individuals having one particular name identifying themselves, which in our case are all one in Christ (Rom 12:5; 1Cor 12:12-18; Eph 1:22,23)! We, collectively, are the body of Christ. The following verses in Col 3:12-24 describe the characteristics of the new man. In the Bible we read of “a cloud” made up of many “witnesses” - figurative of a multitude of righteous ones (Heb 12:1, which follows the list of the righteous in Heb 11).
Regarding Rom 3:23 you write: “God’s righteousness Paul goes on to say is by faith of Jesus Christ for under the law all sin and come short of the glory of God.” if we read the previous verses 21,22, we learn that all means all. We all sin, we all fall short. Paul does not give us a distinction here, yet you place a distinction in quoting Rom 3:23 in adding, “under the law all sin and come short of the glory of God.” In using verses 19,20 and relate it to v. 23, the conclusion is incorrect! We all - Jew, Gentile, adopted Israelites, fall short because of our sin nature.
You state: “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified (righteous) in his sight…” However, in Rom 2:13 we read: “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” Does this contradict Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16? Context is everything! Those who “rest in the law” of Moses taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. (Rom 2:25-29). Paul vehemently opposed this (Acts 15:5-24). Obviously, such could not be justified, or declared righteous (Gal 4:9-11; cf. Heb 6:4-6). Faith comes from hearing – hearing the words of Christ (Rom 10:17). It is more than just believing Christ existed. It is about reading attentively and doing the laws of Christ he commanded.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
12:6 Human Nature is such that we like to boast about things we have or have achieved. Such boating is foolish. It is destructive of the mind of Christ because it exalts self.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
12:8-9 It is hard to accept that God knows best for us. However there may come a time when we should stop praying for something. We may have asked repeatedly and appeared not to receive an answer. Maybe the answer is that things must remain as they are. It is not that God has not answered us – rather we need to learn that His grace is sufficient.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
12:4 Jesus, speaking to the repentant sinner on the cross, clearly associated the coming kingdom with “paradise” - 23:42-43 – so if we let Jesus’ words explain words we can conclude that whoever Paul is writing about they saw a vision of the kingdom of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
12:14 As an apostle Paul had the right to be supported by the ecclesia, though it seems he never asked for financial support from the ecclesia he was visiting.
Not only did this remove the charge that some made that he was making a profit form the Corinthians. It also removed the possible accusation that what he said and did was designed to ingratiate him with those who provided the material support.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter